Valerie: Rise, renew,
reconnect.
Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where bold conversations empower healing and authentic, vibrant living.
I'm your host, Valerie Huang Beck, and I'm on a mission to evolve the dialogue that moves humanity harmoniously forward.
Tian: And the fire in the darkest night of Phoenix birds, it's ready for flight Shadows may come try to tear you apart but you're the fate.
Valerie: All right, everyone. Welcome back to from the Ashes podcast. Yes,
it's Valerie here, and I have my friend Tian from New Zealand originally, but we are meeting up in person in Japan, which is pretty wild after, like, eight years,
right, of not seeing each other.
Tian: Yeah. Probably maybe even longer.
Valerie: No, it's longer.
Tian: Yeah. Yeah. It's been, like, a decade.
Valerie: It's been a decade because I left New Zealand in 2016.
Tian: Yeah. Yeah. So it's been a decade.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: A hot decade.
Valerie: Oh, ****. Yeah.
Tian: Yeah. And it's crazy how, like, I had no idea I was ever gonna see you again in my life.
And then I think you saw some posts of mine on Facebook. You're like, oh, hey, you're here. I'm here too, in Tokyo. And then. Yeah. I was like, oh, it's so random.
And, yeah, now we're here for a podcast.
Valerie: I don't get to. I really don't get to connect with the people, like,
way out in New Zealand, Australia, that I know very often, because you guys are just. So far.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And, like, you guys are. It's almost like another world. So it's so cool to, like, be able to connect again.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: And how we know each other. Okay, so we both were training at Flow Academy, right. More or less, like.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: In the. The parkour, tricking, tumbling sphere of things. So that's the context of it, right?
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Back in New Zealand when you were there. Yeah, yeah. Train a few times.
Valerie: But Tian has also become a life coach.
Tian: Yeah. More or less. I feel like I've always been kind of on and off, like, guiding people, but never really officially making it a thing.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: But I feel like it's always been a part of me that now I'm like, okay, I think I need to make it more official as almost, like, my service into the world in a way.
Valerie: Yeah. So I want to dive into that story, because I do know. I think when I met you, I think you were already, like, influencer, Right.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And I think you are. Yeah. I think I. I felt like somewhere along the way, like, you were doing this as well. Like, kind of like the coaching and the, the self improvement and all of that.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: So, like, my podcast is called from the Ashes. So I.
Tian: Like a phoenix from the ashes.
Valerie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, I want to ask you, like, what is your,
you know, when did you start to do this work? And like, did you have any personal experiences where you really had to figure stuff out on your own,
like what the meaning of your life is?
Tian: Oh, right. Yeah. I mean, I think it was like. Yeah, this was the height of my influencer days where.
When. When I was. I think. Yeah. Around 2016, I was more into, like, comedy and stuff. So I was. I was going viral a lot for, like, comedy videos and going on this, like, dating show and stuff.
I don't know if you saw that clip.
Valerie: I don't remember.
Tian: Okay. Anyways, I was on this dating show. This clip went really viral. And then I was like a funny guy for a while, and then I felt like,
I mean, that was fun. And it was like, I really like the intention and the ego boost and feeling like, oh, wow, I'm a somebody kind of thing. Right.
But at a certain point, I kind of felt like,
as much as I want to be a part of this circle of, like,
influencers and comedians and stuff,
I always felt like I. It wasn't fully who I am.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: It's like I just wanted to be cool, be with the cool kids, and I did. But then at a certain point I'm like, if I keep pretending,
it's not completely authentic to who I really am. And I think there was always like a deeper part of me that's like. Well, it's. If you have all this attention and you're just kind of making memes and stuff, that's kind of silly to get views.
A part of me feels like I wasn't living up to my own purpose and my own potential.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So the deeper parts of me really started coming out. It was almost like.
It's like I feel like I have, like. It's like. It's like I have the funny part and then I have the more spiritual, serious part. And then when I do one part too much, the other part starts, like,
nagging me to go there.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So then I feel like I always needed to balance my comedic non serious stuff with more deeper serious stuff. So that's kind of how it started, I would say.
Valerie: Do you know why you have a serious or spiritual side? Like, where does that come from?
Tian: That's. Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. Like, where does it.
Do you, like. Are you saying, like, some People just don't have that side. Yeah,
that's probably true. Huh.
Hmm.
Maybe it's just like a innate thing, I guess. Well, yeah, I mean, that's a good question. It's like, why are some people not able to be deep, period? And why are some people more naturally drawn to being deep?
Right.
Valerie: Well, yeah, because. Okay, one of your missions is to help people find themselves, right?
Tian: Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: People. Some people just don't know that they're even.
Tian: They don't.
Valerie: They don't feel lost.
Tian: Right, right, right.
Valerie: So there's. And I think there's like, a journey of, like, some people find themselves really struggling, lost. Like, I feel like I was one of those people,
you know, and bef. Prior to that point, like, I was fine not looking.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: You know?
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Well, I think if you don't. If you're not suffering and you don't feel lost and just keep doing your thing, you know, it's like, no one needs to come into your life and be like, no, you need to do this or that.
If you're good, then you're good. Right? Yeah. But I think. Yeah, maybe. Maybe to answer your question, it's like there were a lot of moments where I didn't feel like,
maybe aligned with who I really am,
and the people around me in the environment didn't feel aligned. So part of me was suffering and was wanting some sort of relief or coherence with my life.
So maybe that was slowly kind of always in the background. And then there's, you know, the.
The whole tears of a clown thing where I'm like, okay, I'm going to be positive and funny, but then in the background, there's always something amiss.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So I think maybe that's where was coming from.
Valerie: Okay. Yeah. Dissonance.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, right. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Valerie: I'll give you a little bit of, like,
context for this question, too, because I think for me,
it was actually after New Zealand that I've. I've. I've had depression before.
Right. Like, I think prior to. It was, like, 2014 or so, and then, like, New Zealand was kind of a break for me.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: And then it went back and I, like, kind of fell back into it.
So during those moments was like, why. You know, I think a lot of it was like, why is the world so messed up? Or like, you know, why is it that I can't function the way that other people function?
All these questions.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, no, I think similar to me. Yeah. Okay.
Valerie: Okay.
Tian: Yeah. But. Sorry, keep going.
Valerie: No, no, yeah. So I just, you know, that's why I ask, is because, like, usually when we feel this pull to help other people and. And to really find who we are, it's because, like, we really don't feel like who.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah,
yeah, yeah. So I think you're right. It's like the ones that help people find their way are the ones that lost their way so many times that they needed to find it themselves.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: That eventually they're like, oh,
this is a thing people experience,
and if I can help myself find my way, then maybe I can help others as well, or something like that.
Valerie: Yeah, right. Totally.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: That's where it starts, anyway. And then you learn along the way. Like, it's really hard.
Right. I think that it's a lifelong journey to find yourself. To find yourself.
Tian: Yeah. Yeah.
Valerie: It's a. It's a commitment, really, to kind of a process, actually.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Rather than, like, an ending outcome.
Tian: Yeah. I think you're always reinventing and evolving and stuff. Right. Yeah. So it's not like you can't just like this. Oh, I don't know. I guess it depends on the person.
But I know what you're trying to say.
Valerie: Yeah, well, it's hard once you start to learn about yourself, to stop. I think that's one of the things. And then,
you know, in addition to becoming a coach myself, I took on other coaches. Like, so I work with a couple who really help guide me and, like, put frameworks on what I'm experiencing.
And one of my coaches, Kate, she was talking about these, like, fractal points where, you know, you have your superpower that is, like, driving you forward and help you.
Helps you with the leaps. But then there's the shadow self of you where they're, like, not negative patterns, but, like, patterns that obstruct you from actually being your authentic self because, like, you're afraid.
And so, like, those patterns will show up again and again, too, until you become aware of them.
Tian: Right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Valerie: Does that resonate?
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah. It's like. It's like this constant. Yeah. I mean, this is a whole spiritual journey, right? Yeah. You're, like, constantly.
I mean, this goes so deep. It's like, you know, whether it's certain patterns or karma or what have you, and you're, like, transmuting, you know, the. The darkness into the light and the.
The unconscious into the conscious. The. The more you dig, the deeper you go, the more you grow. And it's like,
yeah, well. And eventually, I Think it becomes like, if you keep going on this journey, it becomes something like Jesus, where you become, like, a Christlike figure. And I feel like, in a way,
you know, people like Jesus or Buddha or whatever, it's like that's kind of almost an example of the height or the epitome of how.
Of what you would sort of become if you keep going, I suppose.
Valerie: But that's hard work. That's really, really hard work. Right. And so. And to commit to that path. Right. I think, you know, the Buddha, I definitely have studied his story a little bit more.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: But it's like he had to really sit with, like, what's not going to be me anymore also, like, you know, because he grew up as a prince.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And then he, like, gave that all up. He gave up his marriage, actually, and all of that to, like, find the truth. Right.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: So this idea of, like, sacrificing what isn't aligned, sometimes that can be very painful.
Tian: Yeah, absolutely.
Valerie: Yeah. Have you ever had that, like. Or have you had that in the recent years?
Tian: Constantly. Yeah,
constantly. I mean, at one point I was. I had, like,
I don't know, 1500 friends on Facebook or something. Right. Now I have 12,
so. And even from those 12, I don't really talk to them anymore. So it feels like throughout the.
It's like my entire life in New Zealand, a lot of the times felt kind of fake.
And I feel like this whole. The past six years or so, it's just been, like, slowly transitioning out of that and, like, removing everything that wasn't. Yeah. Like you said, aligned with me or isn't true to me anymore.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Are you from New Zealand originally?
Tian: I was born in China.
Valerie: Okay.
Tian: But I moved to New Zealand when I was seven.
Valerie: Okay.
Tian: Yeah. But even then, the. The moment I got there, I was quite depressed. I think my Depression started at 7 years old when I moved to New Zealand. Yeah.
Valerie: Okay.
Tian: And it's taken me. I mean, but there's a lot of good things in New Zealand that I'm grateful for myself. But. Yeah. It took me a long time to kind of get to that point.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: With New Zealand. And even then, I kind of still felt like it wasn't really my place.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: With my people and my kind of culture. Like, I like the good things, but overall it's not. Yeah. You know. Yeah.
Valerie: I can really.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: I want to also bring into.
I want to ask you about tricking and movement, because you.
I know you've mentioned recently, like, you came up with rope flow like a mo you know, which is a separate movement practice. Right.
But movement has. I feel like that's been part of you for a very long time.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Yeah. And you are the second, like, trick or turn life coach in my. My circles.
Tian: Oh, really?
Valerie: At least.
Tian: Okay.
Valerie: So I think it's interesting there's this because I. Because I became a coach. I think a lot of it was inspired by movement.
Tian: Really?
Valerie: Cause I, you know, I started off as, like, a hip hop dancer.
Tian: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You had a dance background.
Valerie: Yeah. And then, like, got into the whole, like,
acrobatics, parkour thing, like, stuff like that.
And I just.
Part of it is just.
It helps me be super present.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: Like, when you're doing a flip in the air, like, you can't think about other things.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And also, there's such a challenge that's. It's so satisfying to be able to land something. Right.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Valerie: And.
And you get to feel kind of superhuman when you're doing it. And there's this sense of empowerment, I think, that,
you know, we get to feel when we're. We're doing this practice.
And I wonder for you if that's, like, influenced the way that you coach, like, the way that you see things.
Tian: Well, I think actually the whole tricking, like, this is the reason I think most people don't get into tricking is because they. They.
How do I. Like,
they can't deal with difficulty in a way.
Like,
it's not that tricking is necessarily that hard, but you have to be willing to fail a lot.
Valerie: Oh, yeah.
Tian: In order to get there. Yeah. And it's. I mean, I guess same with, like, break dancing. And if you want to do, like, windmills and flares, there's a lot of trial and error.
Right. So you got to really have the perseverance to stick through it.
But then it's like, well, if you are a person that's able to break through so much difficulty and come out at the other side, then you sort of develop this mindset that anything is possible.
And then it's like, you're not a snowflake anymore, where, like, the slightest amount of challenge just makes you,
you know, weep and go home. Right.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: But you're like, no. It's like, I'm willing to face the difficulty in the darkness, and I'm ready to go.
I'm prepared to go through it. Right. And I think that as a mindset, whether you do it in tricking or life, you know, it's like,
that definitely helps. But then I Find the people that do tricking originally already have that kind of mindset.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: That's why they do tricking.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Because they can handle it. You know, because I met people that are really talented in movement.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: And honestly, the person that got me started into tricking, like, he's a much better mover than me.
But then he didn't go very far in tricking because he didn't like the grit of failing.
You know, he kind of always had this, like, streak of just doing things the first few times and getting it really well and then looking like, you know, this perfect being that can do anything.
But with tricking, you gotta fall on your face and bail a lot. Right.
Valerie: Not only that, but risk, like, a serious injury.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, that's true. True.
Valerie: And I have.
And I find myself still really drawn to doing well, like tricking. I've put kind of to the side, but even just like tumbling or, you know, it still has a lot of.
You need to fail a lot.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Right. And not only that, because if you're not progressing at some point, you need to look at, like,
what is the pattern that's causing me to. To.
To fall short every single time.
Tian: Yeah. Yeah.
Valerie: And. And that I have found to be really valuable.
Tian: Really. Not. Not just in tricking, but in life. Right.
Valerie: Like.
Tian: Cause I was literally troubleshooting your.
Valerie: Yeah, exactly.
Tian: Well.
Valerie: Cause I'm 38 now.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: Crazy. But,
you know, it took me this long. Cause I just got back to the gym after two years of. Of not have. Cause my knee was like. I couldn't really do that much on it.
So coming back to the gym and then having coaches look at me and. And like, trying things again and feeling like, oh, I left. I pretty much can pick up where it left off, which is awesome.
But at the same time, I'm picking up the patterns that I had that I had in the first place that got me in trouble and.
Right.
And then having coaches be like, you really.
How much power that you have in your movement is actually working against you.
And me being like,
that's how I do life everywhere.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: Is that I power through. And I think that I could just muscle it without the.
Tian: Oh, I see. Yeah. You know, like, the. The proper foundations to sustain that.
Valerie: Right, right. Because, like, I could do a. I. He. He was like, you could do a back handspring.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And you should be able to do it, no problem. But because you're so used to like, like forcing the. The speed to get you through rather than like, actually leaning into relaxing because you already have the muscle strength to do it.
Like, you're making it harder for yourself.
Tian: Yay. I completely relate right now.
Valerie: Right.
Tian: Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: And I was like, so I don't have to try harder? Like, I don't have to. Like, I don't have to keep. You know, and. And it's such a revelation because,
like, I. I think, you know, we think that we have to get all these ducks in a row, but you already, like, at some point, like, it's enough. Right.
So.
Tian: Well, I think it's like your special.
Like. Like you have a lot of power of force to begin with. Right, right. And that's. That's an advantage in a certain way.
Valerie: But.
Tian: But then if you overuse it and you don't develop proper technique or muscle control.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Then it's like, well, you can do it, but over time, every time you're doing it, you're damaging your body.
Valerie: Right, exactly. And spatial awareness.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And some people are like the opposite. It's like they don't have much power, but then they just have so much awareness over their body that,
like, even though they progress slower, they have less power. Like, their progression feels a bit more sustainable and safer. Yep.
Valerie: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so it's being able to continue to look at that over a lifetime because, like, the. The pitfall is that you think, oh, I should have been here already by the time I'm 38, 39, whatever.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: And being like,
I'm not there, so, like, I'm gonna stop or whatever. Right. Because I think this is what a lot of people end up doing is that, like, they.
They feel like they've done everything they can and.
But they actually.
There's just so much more to learn about yourself.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: In continuing the practice.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: So that's how I, you know, for me, that's how. How movement has really informed, like, life aspect.
Tian: Interesting. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Well, I. I mean, for me, I think I. I think this was more unconscious when I was younger, but, like, I've always been a very active kid. Like, even when I was three in China, I was always running around with my friends and jumping on mattresses and stuff and,
like, rollerblading and all that. And when I got to New Zealand, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, play soccer, play basketball, play. Play rugby, just play water polo, like, constantly doing sports.
And it wasn't until, like, maybe a few years ago when I was going through more of, like, a dark depressive phase and I stopped moving as much, that I realized how much it Impacted my mind.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: And then, like, I didn't realize it at the time,
but when I. When I suddenly did and I started moving again more and just being more in my body, it was like, holy ****. This is like. This is the difference between, like,
I, like a winner and a loser kind of thing, or like, me feeling good or me.
Me eventually, like,
being super depressed and. And, you know, doing all these bad things.
Valerie: Yeah, exactly.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: It makes a huge difference.
Tian: Yeah. Yeah.
Valerie: We take it for granted.
Tian: Yeah, we do. Yeah. Yeah. So. So now it's like, with movement, it's like,
it's not even like,
I think before it was always, like, for the sport itself, like, I wanted, you know, learn a backflip, because I want to learn a backflip.
And there wasn't really the.
The health or the mental aspect to it, the mental health aspect. But now it's like, I'm like, if I don't move, I know I'm gonna feel ****.
So it's like I'm looking for ways to. To move, not just for the sake of the movement, but also just for my overall well being. Like, you know, it's a cliche where people are like, oh, you know, exercise is good for your mental health.
Right. You hear it, but you don't really.
Until you experience how badly you need it and then you have it, you're like, okay, yeah, I get it.
Valerie: Exactly.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: I mean, even this, this past week, because, like, I didn't get to the. Until yesterday because, like, I was just. There's so much work to do, and I could feel myself being like, yeah,
you know, I'm getting into this place where I really don't need to be there in terms of, like, oh, I'm feeling sad. And it's like, I could just go take a dance class.
I just have to make time for that.
Tian: Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: Kind of thing.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like. Like so many times it's like,
you know, there's that saying where it's like,
you can't solve mind problems of the mind. You have to solve the body. Yeah, yeah. And then sometimes it's like I'm ruminating, trying to solve all these things,
but then if I just, like,
go to the gym or work out or do something my body wants, it's like,
it's the perfect antidote to all the crazy ruminations of my mind.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: So how do you coach your clients? Like, what is your approach right now for the life coaching part at least?
Tian: It's like,
well, I just. Through a conversation, I guess. Right. And then through the conversation, I eventually I get to know them more,
and then I start piecing together things they actually like and I guess aspects of themselves that I feel are really true. Like, a lot of it, I feel like, comes from intuition where I can feel certain things are on point and aligned with that person.
And basically throughout the conversation,
I get data on the person. And then once I have enough, like, data points, you can say, then I can form a picture around that person. Then it's like, well, okay, you're telling me this, but you're doing this.
And then. But there's. There's this thing that I think maybe will match you more.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Given what I've. I've known. And then we kind of just like, prod at different possibilities, I suppose, of their life and then. Yeah. Help them find their way.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: More or less.
Valerie: What's your. What do you think is, like, the most rewarding thing about doing this work?
Tian: Well, because for me, like, I feel like when people,
like, it's. It's such a deficit to the world when people aren't being themselves and doing what they're really meant to be doing.
So I guess it's almost like the satisfaction of, like,
how can I. You know, like, some people, like, they see someone's clothing tag sticking out.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: And they. They want to put it back in. Right?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: And it's just. Okay. That's like the.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: The right way to do it. So sometimes I see that with people, and it's like you can see that that's like they're misaligned. And somehow then that's how you just, like, correct it.
And it's like.
That's like this, like, satisfying feeling of like you're restoring some sort of balance back into the world.
Valerie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tian: And it's like every single person is like a link to the world's harmony and the world's balance and the world's peace or whatever. Right.
Valerie: Yep.
Tian: So then it's like, well,
you know, as much as I can do now, it's like if I can see certain links that are, like,
inhibited or misaligned somehow and I can fix it, then it's like, just really satisfying in that sense of like.
Yeah. Feeling like I'm doing something important.
Valerie: Oh, I really love that image of, like, bringing the kind of, like, the flow of humanity back.
Tian: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I feel like. I mean, because my theory is, like, if everyone is actually in flow of themselves in the world, in nature and whatever, like, that's like probably the only way to create world peace.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Like, you can. You can do all of these things and have all of these ideas of what you think is right. But if you're doing things that don't feel right to your heart and your soul, it doesn't really matter what you do.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: It doesn't. Like, you can't get there eventually, essentially, is what I've noticed.
Valerie: I love that.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Yeah. I don't know if you've ever studied any kind of, like, yoga philosophy, but, like, they say this also in the, like, kind of the scriptures.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: Is this idea of Dharma. Dharma.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And I actually turned that word into flow. Like, I. I was, like, looking at it from a modern perspective.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: Because dharma can mean many different things. But what I think it points the most strongly to is a person's unique potential.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And. Right. Which has to. It's not like, one thing.
Tian: It's.
Valerie: It's what is created from the person's upbringing, environment and history that would allow them to flourish in their.
Like, what makes them. Them. Right. That authenticity piece.
But I think they go also beyond saying just that to,
you know, if you are in your dharma, if you have your alignment in that way, like, it opens up a different type of abundance for you.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Valerie: Right.
It's not necessarily how much money you're making or, like, how many resources you have, per se, but it's the.
It's almost like a.
The energy of being resourced to do what you're meant to do.
Tian: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. For sure.
Valerie: And then there's another part. So there's like, that Dharma Artha kama, which is.
Tian: Oh, yeah, the purushattas. Yeah, yeah. I made a video on this, actually.
Valerie: Oh, you did?
Tian: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so cool. You're the only other person that I know have ever studied it.
Valerie: Oh, yeah, Yeah. I made an entire, like, mini course on it.
Tian: Oh, really? Wow. Yeah.
Valerie: So. Yeah. So good. You know, the purushartha. So, yeah. Arthur, to me, it's like, it's not looking at just the superficial wealth, but it's also, like,
you know,
things coming in together in your favor so that you can carry out your dharma in a more experience.
Tian: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say, Arthur, it's not even just about money, but it's like, even, like, knowing, like, okay, we need a room to film this podcast in. Right. We need a mic.
We need this and that. It's like the. The things that. The structural things you need to do in your life so that you can do your dharma. Right.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Yeah. And it's like, well, sometimes you do need money, right. To buy money is part of it, to pay your rent so you can live and stuff. Right. But it's not the.
It's not everything. Yeah.
Valerie: And it's like. So we'll get into, like, basic needs after. Because I think there's a. There's this, like, level of really needing to, like, take care of your body and self preserve, too, in order for you to be able to even get to the point where you can pursue your dharma.
Tian: Really.
Valerie: But, like, going back to pras, and there's like, the comma piece, the enjoyment piece of it.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: The way that I was taught in school is like, look at it as you're doing your dharma.
You're like,
you're resourced to do it. Right. So you have your artha part and you have this. Then there's a natural ability to drive pleasure in your life because you are so doing what you're meant to be doing.
And the universe is like, supporting you to do it.
That's like a deeper type of pleasure. It's not superficial. Like, I'm just enjoying life.
And I think that that is also worth pursuing. Is like being able to enjoy being integrated.
Tian: Yeah. Well, I. I think comma is actually, for me is like. Is like, ideally, if you can find your dharma from your karma, it's, like, really good.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Because it's like,
even. It's like if you find something meaningful to do, but if you don't enjoy it as much, I just feel like your impact isn't as strong.
Yeah. You know, like, I think,
like, even if you. I don't know if you ever study, like, the levels of consciousness thing where it's like. Like, the lowest is like, shame and guilt, and then it goes into, like,
courage and then joy and then enlightenment and stuff. But anyways, like, the level of joy actually sits really high.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So it's like, if you are just operating from joy, even if you're not doing anything, like,
you know, that's your purpose or that you're. You're consciously trying to do.
It's like, if you're just operating from that, then, like, anything you do is actually contributing somehow. I would say, you know, in a. In a positive way. Yeah.
Valerie: Yeah. And I think that, you know, it's. There's no necessarily an order to it. It kind of like, if you were. But if you were to,
like, if you were to look at it as a wheel.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Right. If they're all working in Tandem. It creates this ease. It's flow.
Tian: Right, right, right. Yeah.
Valerie: And then that brings us to the last piece, which is the moksha piece.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: The liberation piece.
And to me, like,
liberation. And I think integration is such a great word because there's, like, an alignment for people where they're like, you know, their tag is in and, like, that everything is good.
And in terms of, like, okay, you. You have the strength also to, like, navigate your challenges,
but also, like, because you're doing what you're meant to be doing. You're a resource.
Tian: You.
Valerie: You enjoy life.
Like, there is this natural. Like, I am. I am who I am. There's this. There's. It's such a groundedness,
and.
Yeah. That's like the completeness of moksha, I think.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Does that make. Does that flow for you? Or, like, do you have. Do you have any others?
Tian: I think for moksha, like, because I. I try to ground the purushatras as much as possible for modern age. So the way, like,
just basically, like, every. Every purushatta is, like, activities you can do, right?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So I don't know. Let's say Dharma is like, your life coaching, and then karma is maybe your dancing or something. Then Arthur is like,
I guess could also be the life coaching because you're making money and stuff. But, like, I feel like the way I. I see moksha in a way that kind of becomes sort of a more maybe practical system is like,
moksha for me are like, just activities. You can call it spiritual or whatever, but activities that helps you come back to yourself.
So things like, you know. You know, people like the common things like, oh, you can do breath work, you can do journaling, you can do meditation. Right. Things like that.
You can do yoga. Right. And these are kind of like. Some of these, you can say are kind of like spiritual activities, but they don't necessarily have to be spiritual.
But it's like, I think everyone has their own activities that helps them come back to themselves.
And I think meditation is really good because it's almost like you're doing nothing. And you can kind of just be at this sense of inner presence with yourself.
Yeah. Because it's like, if you don't know how to feel, you, then everything else you do kind of becomes a little bit clumsy in a way. So I feel like you need the moksha piece in there to try and find yourself back to you.
Then everything you do from that place becomes a lot cleaner and clearer.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Yeah. And I feel like this is the part of putty Shark test, I really like over a system like ikigai. Yeah, right. Like, ikigai is basically the puddish artist without moksha.
Right. And I feel like moksha is such an important piece because, like, you know, we can identify that, you know, maybe your dharma is a life coach or,
you know, to. To make iPhones or whatever. Right. And this and that. But it's like if.
If you don't. If you have an intellectual idea of what your purpose is, but you don't feel in your skin when you're doing it, it's like, doesn't matter what you do, it kind of.
That doesn't become.
Yeah. As clean as it could be. Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: And I think another way, because I really like how you are placing into activities that would cultivate that part of the wheel is that like, it's a lot of that is about authenticity.
Right.
Because then,
like, you need to feel like it is you.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Not just because some guru told you you should meditate an hour a day and you're like, okay, I'll just force myself to do it. But then you don't listen to your body.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. For sure. And that's why I think,
you know, things like meditation and. And stuff, like,
I think that does work. But also a lot of people can turn that into like almost like this spiritual repression. Yeah,
yeah.
Valerie: Religion almost. Or like, like a blind following practice.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's the whole point. It's like without that moksha, you don't know what's real to you. So then you can start being blind.
You can blindly do a bunch of **** that people say it's good for you. Yeah. But if you don't feel it, then.
Yeah, it's not, you know.
Valerie: Right.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: It's not going to get you anywhere.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Valerie: Okay.
Tian: Yeah. Because I think that's one aspect I found was so important is like, I met so many people that like,
profess certain practices and techniques and stuff, and they're so, like, adamant about it and they're like, this is the way.
But then they don't understand that everyone is kind of different in a way.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Like, like some teachers, they're like, okay, this is the way. Like you go to. You know, even like if you go to like a vipassana retreat.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: They're like, they're like, this is the way. And even you talk to the teachers, they're like, this is the way.
And I feel like it's so like. And Even Goenka talks about not doing things by blind faith. But then sometimes, the way they teach it, it almost feels like they're so convinced that this is the only way to liberation that they don't allow space for, like,
authenticity to. To live and experiment. And then when you tell people, like, when you're so convinced that this is a way and you convince other people to do it, like,
and the other person isn't similar to you, where it would work, then it's like you're leading them astray.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: You know? Yeah.
Valerie: I think that's the difference between.
Between being like Jesus or Buddha and being Jesus or Buddhist followers. You know, it's like,
because they're following,
but,
you know, their leader. But the leader's consciousness, their way of being is actually what needs to be is. Is what's available.
Right. It's. It's what we're trying to embody. But we can't do that for other people. We can only really do that for ourselves.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And so when we were saying you have to meditate 10 hours a day,
whatever,
and this is the only way, it's because I. It's probably because, like,
you haven't really gotten there.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And.
Yeah,
you're, you know, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe.
But I've had to, like.
Because I've done vipassana as well. Actually. That's how I started off with a lot of my spiritual stuff. And then, like, going into Ashtanga yoga, which I also, like, that became a very rigid practice for me,
and then ultimately was just not healthy.
Tian: Oh, really? Yeah.
Valerie: So because it was like, you have to do it this way. Show up six days a week, two hours a day, and, like, my body was, like, breaking, you know.
Tian: Right. Oh, right.
Valerie: Because I was crazy.
Tian: Because, like, that's, like, military.
Valerie: Exactly. But it's also meant for people who do only that. But the thing is, I was doing, like, cap wood and stuff at night.
Not meant for somebody who's already really, really active.
Tian: Right, right.
Valerie: And at the end of the day, like, there's just so many rules and restrictions in place that don't make sense for everybody.
Tian: Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
But then it's like, if you don't have your own consciousness and discernment of, like, what's right for you and you just follow blindly, then I think that could lead to your own destruction.
Valerie: Yep.
Tian: You know? Yeah.
Valerie: So.
Tian: Yeah. So that's why I think. Yeah. Moksha is such a good piece. I feel like.
I mean, at least the way I see it, maybe I'm completely bastardizing what they're saying, but that's the way I see the piece of moksha is like to know yourself in a way.
Yeah.
Valerie: And I think that that's, you know, I. One of the beauties of doing this work is exploring it, like, really sitting for, like, and seeing for ourselves what this word means.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Because I think part of it is actually learning the truth embodied. It is actually learning the truth experience as opposed to learning the concept and just intellectually knowing it. Because, like.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: You know, we can have many different definitions for the word moksha and.
Tian: Yeah, that's true.
Valerie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tian: But I. I will say, I think.
I think this also comes back to like, a consciousness thing where, like,
if you're operating from a lower level of consciousness,
sometimes it is more effective for that person if you give them a very rigid routine,
because them doing that is at least better than them doing what maybe they would normally do.
Like, that wouldn't take them all the way to, like, spiritual enlightenment or whatever. But it might be better than nothing.
So I think a lot of times spiritual teachings are dispensed in a way to more of an average audience.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So if you are already above average,
then it's almost like you have to be very aware of what feels right for you and to take.
Take what works for you and, you know.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: And ignore the other parts.
Valerie: Yeah. And it's so tricky because at the end of the day, like,
we have to be mindful that, like, we, as teachers or guides, we. We have a limitation as to how much influence we have.
Like, it really does fall on the other person to meet us halfway and.
But we don't want to force anything because, like, you know, when we do give practices and they take it as the law,
you know, that's a dangerous thing to do.
Tian: Yeah. Right.
Well, I. I think, like, that's why a lot of, in my opinion, the best teachers always tell you to.
To try and teach you to think for yourself and to not take what they say as dogma.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: You know, otherwise.
Yeah. Cause I mean, some people, they're like, they're so convinced they're the way, then they become like cult leaders and stuff. Right. And then that kind of goes down a different route.
But yeah, like,
like, if you can teach people to think for them, like, you teach them what you know, but also teach them to think for themselves, I guess. Yeah. Or to question what, what you're saying as well, I think is.
Makes a good teacher, like. Yeah. Like, if a teacher just goes up to you and says, okay, this is my way, and this is the only way,
I already, it's like a red flag for me, like, feeling like that teacher has only existed within their own bubble of what works. And because it's work for them,
it's like they're like projecting out their,
their reality into everyone's reality. Not knowing everyone kind of lives,
you know, everyone's a bit different. Right? Yeah, yeah. So,
yeah.
Valerie: Yeah. And since this, the phrase has come up so many times in a conversation. Have you seen the Mandalorian at all?
Tian: The Star wars thing?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Oh, no, I haven't.
Valerie: Okay. Maybe you definitely should, because the, the phrase that he says.
Tian: Yeah, the, the.
Valerie: So I'll give you just like a little background. I don't know Star wars that well, but like, the Mandalorians are basically like this group, I guess.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And it's religious group, and their phrase is this is the way.
Tian: This is the way. Right, right.
Valerie: Yeah. And I think the story around the Mandalorian revolves around him breaking his history, like, very, you know,
like, this is the way framework to, like, start to think for himself.
Tian: Ah, interesting.
Valerie: So it is a very. Yeah, it's a really cool show. So if you do get a chance to check it out.
Tian: Oh, that's cool. Is it kind of like almost speaking to how like. Yeah, like, you could have, like, really militant Christians or something, and they're always, like,
very strict. But then I know some of them kind of like they grow in consciousness a little, then they start questioning things, and they break out of the,
the, the strict religious route, and they kind of find their own path.
Valerie: It is like that, I think, and now I think we've gotten to this point where we are starting to question a lot.
Tian: Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: Because bringing it back to Star wars, like a lot of the old Star wars stuff is, like, portraying the Jedi as these good people.
The recent stuff is like, no, these people are flawed and they have as much potential to cross over to the dark side.
And it's not always black and white.
Tian: So anyway, two sides of the same coin.
Valerie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. I think it's just, it's, it's useful to, to think for ourselves. And, and also, like, not everything has a straight answer.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: You know, especially when it comes to, like, who we are as people is constantly evolving.
Tian: Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I, I, I, I recently did. I went to the Zen meditation thing a while ago when I was in Vietnam.
And the teacher, he was really good, actually. And one thing I realized from Zen meditation was that Zen is actually a really masculine way of meditating,
whereas vipassa is much more feminine.
And, like, prior to experiencing either, I didn't realize there was this huge sort of, like, spectrum of, like,
vibes of meditation, I suppose.
But when I was doing Zen meditation, like, there was a point where I was like, oh, I can feel certain things, and this feels really good. But I could also feel emotions are coming up.
Like,
then I asked him, it's like, well, what. What do I do about the emotions when they come up? And then he was basically saying how Zen, the practice of Zen,
in a way, just bypasses meditation. Like, it's so. Oh, sorry. It bypasses emotion where it's so masculine. You're, like,
focused on a fixated point, and it's almost like you're willing yourself to have such clear focus that you're just, like,
going full speed ahead and your emotions don't have time to even be considered in a way. Whereas, like, vipassa feels like the opposite, where it's like you're constantly sitting in your body and you're examining all the different sensations in your body.
But then it's like with a pasta, sometimes I feel like you can go so into your feelings that it's like at a certain point, you're like, okay, I felt my body, I felt my emotions.
Like, I need to live my life and do. Right? If you just spend 10 hours a day, like, excavating the abyss, it's like, well, when do you actually live life?
Right?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So I feel like either side, if you take it too far, it can be a detriment to you.
But then neither teacher tells you that, you know, right? They're just like, okay, this is it. This is what you're going to do, and this is the way you're going to feel good, right?
And then go and gets like, okay, you got to sit here. You shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. Right? And I feel it's crazy. It's like, I feel like the base minimum is like, okay, this is my technique.
This is what's worked for me. This is kind of the people that it resonates with. This is the kind of results you might get. This is the kind of problems it might help you with, et cetera, et cetera, right?
But it's not everything, right? So if this is kind of what you need, then, sure, go ahead and try it. But if it's not, then maybe try the past and maybe try this and that, right?
Yeah, yeah. And, and then, and I was like, well, it would be nice if there was like a, you know, like a meditation guide or something, right. Where, like, you go to this person and you tell them the things you're having trouble with, then they can recommend you the meditation.
That's, like, correct for you, I suppose.
Yeah.
Valerie: Yeah. Or perhaps that's too easy. I don't know.
Tian: It's too easy.
Valerie: No, in terms of, like,
I, I think that there. Some things are.
Are a journey in themselves. And I think this getting to know, Right. Because I, and I think the reason why it's,
you know, there's like, vipassana doing this here and then doing this here is because we as humans only live so long.
So, like, for, for them to like, even get to the point of the, you know, that they can, like, teach this really well. It's like,
of course they're going to advocate for that because I, I don't think we, I,
I just don't think that our lives are long enough to be able to amass the type of wisdom that we might need to in order to,
to be able to, to do that.
I would love to be wrong about that because I think both of us having this conversation does show that, like,
there are people out there who understand that, like,
part of it is that, you know, we are different. And navigating that difference is a huge part of being able to heal.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And that teachers that are able to have that discernment and teach that to students are so important.
So, yeah, there are people out there that I think exist for that purpose, but I think,
I don't know, maybe there's some kind of, like, human limitation.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: Creates this kind of, like, imperfect system.
Tian: Well, I think we could definitely keep, like, I mean, we keep evolving and our wisdom over time, collectively gets higher. Right.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So I feel like, yeah, there's. I feel like we're already approaching that point now where we're beginning to see past our own bubble. You know, like, maybe in the past, it's like, yeah, this guy spent his entire life dedicating to the exploration of Zen.
They came to this climax. They're like, this is the answer, right?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: And of course, it's like back then, it's like he only had that, that world, that little world,
that bubble to work with. So that's all you could see. Right. But now it's like, we've come in, into this life, into this time, and we can see past his own bubble.
Right. We can see past that teacher's bubble.
So now we can see. Okay. Well,
we understand how he could. He could have seen that as a whole world, but we know that there's actually beyond worlds beyond that that might be worth considering. Yep. Yeah.
Valerie: So we're kind of at the edge of it then.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. I think we're at the. The pinnacle of, like, human consciousness development.
Valerie: You know, I mean, we have to be.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: So I was talking about basic human needs.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: So I. I study Ayurveda.
Tian: That was.
Valerie: This is how I kind of got here. And in Ayurveda, Ayurveda exists as a part of the Vedic system, and it's a system of medicine. Right.
Tian: But.
Valerie: But why have the system of medicine? It's not just to help people not feel sick.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: There's this actual word called svastha that I mention really often. And svastha means to be settled in the self.
Tian: Oh, okay.
Valerie: And what this really is pointing to is that in order for you to have enough alignment to have clear vision on your dharma, you need to be healthy.
Tian: Oh, right. Yeah. For sure.
Valerie: Right.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And the problem, I think, with a lot of modern culture and just, like, how busy we're. How distracted we are,
is that we neglect.
And we've been taught largely to neglect our health.
And it makes it really difficult on a very practical level when you're not healthy or in pain.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Right. You're distracted.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: You're cold, you're hungry, you're whatever.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: And if you aren't able to take responsibility for making sure that you are good.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Your potential is cut off.
Tian: Yeah. Well,
100%. Well, it's like you might be the best driver and you have the best GPS in the world, but if your car is, like, in shambles, you're not going to get very far.
Right.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Yeah. Well, and I would also say that's kind of. I would. I would put health under moksha as well.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: To help you. Yeah. That's the really important part of the equation. Yeah.
Valerie: You know, the reason why I brought that up is because it's not.
There needs to be a baseline, and I think that's why,
you know, a baseline of health. Right. A ba. A baseline of wellness. Yeah.
Because if we are giving from empty.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: As. As leaders, as guides. Also, that doesn't help anyone.
Tian: Right. Yeah.
Valerie: Right. Because then it actually skews our vision.
Right. If,
if, for example, we run, if we're operating from our own anxiety, if we're operating from our own perception of our own not enoughness that translates to as there. There's almost like this desperate energy of like, I have to fix the world as opposed to I want to help the world.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Valerie: So like,
you know, I, and I,
I think I'm, you know, just recently I've leaned into this a little bit more because I realized like, yeah, I was okay, but there were parts of me that were still not.
And then just really taking responsibility to,
to be in a place where I can be of service and it, it's not about me anymore.
And.
Yeah. So I guess my question to you for all of this is like, how do you maintain your vessel, your vehicle to make sure like you can show up the best for other people too?
Tian: Oh, I thought you were going somewhere else with that.
Valerie: But if you want to go a different direction. Yeah, I'm curious now.
Tian: It's almost like you don't want to take it too seriously. Right? Where you're like, you're trying to fix the world and then it's so serious and it's almost like you're trying to fix the world in a way so that you feel like maybe you have some significance.
Valerie: Right.
Tian: Would you say that's kind of.
Valerie: Oh, that's also on part of it?
Tian: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, Yeah. I think I recently had that same realization as well where. Well, I kind of realized it's like it has to be 50, 50. It's not just about completely you being in service to the world and like becoming like a martyr.
Right, right. And self sacrificing. But it's, but it's also not about like, just look at me, you know, I'm so cool.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: You know, follow me. Get, get views and stuff. Right. It's like. And it's all just ego, right? Yeah. It actually has to be 50, 50. I've noticed, like,
if you're all for the world, eventually you fizzle yourself out and you don't have any, like,
you don't have any like, oomph to you.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Like, you don't have your own power and impact and like magic.
Right.
Then I feel like you can't, you actually can't contribute as effectively if you don't have like a healthy ego, for example. Right. But then if you're all ego and you're not contributing at all, then it's like you're just like Sucking up the world's attention.
And you're not really.
You're sort of misusing it in a way.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So,
yeah, recently I kind of came to this conclusion as well, where I'm like, well,
it's fun to do things for my ego where I feel like, oh, this is going to be really fun, and I think people really like it, and I think I'll look really cool and stuff.
Right.
But then it's like, another part is like, if I don't have the part where I'm like, well, is this actually making a meaningful impact?
If I don't have that, then I also feel, like,
not good, I suppose. Right. But it's like, if I only do things for my ego and I get a lot of views, it has no meaning or impact, then it feels empty.
But if I only do impact and I don't feel like I tn, you know, the inner child of tn, get to exist and to play and to be seen,
then it's also really sad for me. Yeah.
Valerie: So.
Tian: Yeah. So trying to find that balance has been quite important.
Valerie: Yeah. So that leads me to that question is like, how do you play? How do you maintain,
you know, that childlike spirit, which I think ego is part of that.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: You know.
Tian: Mm.
I think it is to tap into sort of the energy of play in a way. Like.
Well, yeah. Like, not to take life too seriously. Like, even when you're trying to save the world and help people and stuff, it's like you're doing it because it feels good for you, you know, like,
you know, fixing the tag of the world or, you know, aligning the world in a way that provides a feeling to you that actually does feel good. You're not just doing it because you feel like you should or something, but.
Yeah,
but I. I would say, like, the best way. And I guess this becomes much more of a spiritual answer where it's like,
when you're really tuned into yourself, moment to moment,
you're gonna have impulses or intuitive nudges to do certain things.
And then when you let yourself just do it and not question it too much and have the faith that. The faith that everything will be fine.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: That usually spills out into doing things with, like,
joy and levity, you know, and curiosity. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Rather than only doing things because you're like, okay, no, I need to save the world, so I can't do this and I can't do that because it's not.
I don't think it's contributing to my mental idea of yeah. What I should be doing to save the world. Right. Then you kind of take it too seriously and I feel like that that it up.
Valerie: Well, it does because then it becomes performative.
Tian: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry I cut you off.
Valerie: No, no, no, that's exactly what I was just gonna say. Yeah.
Tian: So I just got excited. I'm like, yeah, that's performative. Exactly.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: But sometimes you don't even know you're performing to yourself.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: You know, you're like,
yeah, yeah. You're just like, oh, I have to do this because it's. Well, I guess it's fun in a way where it's almost like you're playing this character of a savior or something in your mind and you're like doing these things.
You're like, well, this is, you know, if I was role playing as a savior, this is what they would do. Right?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: But then at a certain point it's like your inner child is just like in the background being like, bro, what the **** are you doing? Like, just chill, like just, you know, why are you taking it so seriously?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: So yeah, it's really important to have that balance back to yourself of just doing things for the sake of joy.
Yeah. I was gonna say, I think like, maybe for people like us that's more.
Have more awareness and they can see the bigger picture and maybe wanting to help people. Sometimes you can be in your head about it of like,
I need to save the world or something. Right. And you don't know how to just live and have fun.
Yeah, yeah. But I think then some people, they're just. They're all just about fun and drinking and stuff. Or.
Well, maybe that's not even fun. Maybe they're just escapism to them. Right. And then there's no sense of higher purpose. So.
Yeah, either way, there. Yeah, there's a balance to be found.
Valerie: Totally. I'm going to wrap up the interview because I think we've covered like a really good amount of. Of stuff.
Tian: Yeah, yeah.
Valerie: Is there anything like else you want to leave with the audience? What do you want to say today?
Tian: There was a point earlier you said of how like,
you know, it's like whether someone should do Zen or vipassana. Like sometimes it's like rather than going to a meditation consultant or something, they should just find out themselves as part of the journey.
Right.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: I feel that we're going into an age where it doesn't need to just be so self experimental,
you know, because it's like you go to a Doctor. And then it's like, I have a cough or whatever, and then a doctor tells you what to take. The doctor's not like, well, go on the journey yourself and figure it out.
You know, like, I feel like we can get to a point where we're so conscious and so aware that we can, like prescribe, you know, spiritual medicine in a way with such high accuracy that it's exactly what the person needs.
But I know what you're saying, it's like, would that take away a sense of like, self exploring, exploration, autonomy within that person to discover things themselves? I'm like,
that's a good point too. I don't know. I don't know. You know, but I feel like, you know, if it's like you can come to someone, you know, whether it's a meditation consultant or whatever, but it's like they can just completely see the full picture of you and just prescribe exactly what you need to get to your truth and your essence and it's your purpose.
Right.
Like, would that not be also very cool?
Valerie: You know, I think it would be cool, but I think there's, there's always going to be somebody needing to also come up with their own answers.
So, you know, as a coach, what I do is like, yes, I can see. Yes, I can see pretty clearly,
you know, what's going on.
But I also know that sometimes advice falls on deaf ears.
Tian: Right.
Valerie: And so, but I hold space for the discovery to happen.
Tian: Yeah, right.
Valerie: Rather than actually pushing and imposing my viewers, it is just suggesting an opening and, and leading somewhat so that people do come to their own conclusions. Because that, you know, I think also at the end of the day, empowerment is incredibly important.
Tian: Yeah.
Valerie: Self empowerment.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Well, well, not to say you're pushing your views on, but it's like if you can completely, completely see the picture. Yeah.
And you, and you know, okay, for example, okay, you, you really should be doing more Zen meditation, Vipassana.
I think you can just like say everything and give it to them, and whether or not they take it is, you know, it's out of your control. Right, exactly. Right.
Yeah. But it's like the whole, like, you can lead a horse to water, but you can make them drink. But that's like, how effectively can you lead a horse to water?
Right,
Right. And I feel like we can get really effective at leading a horse to the water much more so than maybe in the past.
Valerie: Yes, I do agree with that.
Tian: Okay, okay. So that's, that's what I'm really interested in. Yeah.
Valerie: I think that's the journey of a coach.
Tian: Right?
Valerie: That's the journey of a life coach. That's the journey of a spiritual guide as well, is learn how to be that better guide.
Tian: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But then you're saying, yeah, but that's interesting question. It's like, how do you become such a good guy that they don't. You don't. It's like you're.
You're guiding them so well that they never learn to guide themselves. Right. Yeah. Well, I don't know.
Valerie: I don't know. I. I don't think.
I think that will continue to be, like,
the question for humankind almost.
And I think. Yeah,
we'll just keep going in that direction.
Tian: Yeah. And just see how it unfolds. Right?
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: Cool. Yeah.
Valerie: That's all I want to say. Thanks, Tian.
Tian: Thank you.
Valerie: Yeah.
Tian: That was great.
Valerie: Thanks for tuning in to from the Ashes. If this episode sparked something in you, remember your evolution matters, and we're rooting for you every step of the way.
For coaching, community, and free resources to help you rise into your full potential,
visit thevibrantvisionary.com and download the Vibrant Visionary Blueprint, your free guide to reclaim your energy, clarity, and creative fire.
If you love this episode, please share it with a friend or tag me Valerie on Instagram ibrantvisionary. Val, I'd love to hear what resonated for you. Until next time. Time keep rising.
