[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew,
[00:01] reconnect.
[00:03] Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where bold conversations empower healing and authentic, vibrant living.
[00:09] I'm your host, Valerie Huang Beck, and I'm on a mission to evolve the dialogue that moves humanity harmoniously forward.
[00:17] Telfer: And the fire in the darkest night of Phoenix birds. It's ready for flight. Shadows may come try to tear you apart, but you're the favorite.
[00:29] Valerie: All right, everyone, welcome back to from the Ashes is today.
[00:33] I have with me Telfer McConaughey,
[00:37] formerly known as Veda Dave. And we're going to jump into that in a bit.
[00:41] And I'm really, really happy that you have made it onto this podcast.
[00:46] And I'm going to start by giving the audience context of how I know you and also an acknowledgement for you that I've actually wanted to give for a while.
[00:57] So I discovered Telfer, aka Beta Day,
[01:02] I want to say, like,
[01:04] oh, 2023.
[01:06] And it was because he was the president of the colorama.
[01:12] Colorado Ayurvedic Medical association is the president. He set up this conference on trauma informed Ayurveda.
[01:21] And I was, when I heard that there was a conference like this,
[01:26] I was like, I have to go. I have nothing to do with Colorado. I'm there.
[01:31] And it turned out to be a really life changing experience and in many, many ways. And I can go into that in a little bit.
[01:40] And then two years later, you know, you announced the Native Indigenous Medicine and Ayurveda Conference,
[01:50] yet another, like,
[01:52] edgy topic that you don't find at Ayurveda conferences,
[01:58] period.
[01:58] Right. Like, it's just Ayurveda to me. Like, the community of Ayurveda, honestly, in the States is very conservative,
[02:06] so.
[02:07] And I had been grappling within myself for years that there were things that I was being taught and that I was learning that weren't in integrity.
[02:21] Because of the context within which we live in the United States. Both of us are no longer in the United States as of right now. But it informs,
[02:30] it informs our experience as holistic practitioners. It informs our experience as people in general because of the term turmoil,
[02:39] to be quite honest,
[02:40] of the way that we've had to live.
[02:45] So the fact that you were kind of like, already a couple steps ahead of me in terms of making this stuff public,
[02:53] I was thrilled.
[02:56] And if you can't see him, he's like,
[02:59] white American,
[03:01] right?
[03:02] Telfer: Well, I'm a white guy,
[03:04] Scottish, Irish,
[03:06] white guy,
[03:08] born in North Carolina, raised in Minnesota. I have no business being an iron,
[03:14] putting on conferences with Ayurveda Indigenous Ayurveda,
[03:18] but all the more reason for to be exploring those realms.
[03:23] Valerie: Right, Exactly. And so the, what I really want to acknowledge you on is that you have stuck your neck way out there,
[03:31] like,
[03:32] you know, and you have felt the blade. Like, I think you have felt the blade and I, I seen it and, and, and it wasn't coming from just one direction.
[03:44] Like you stuck your neck out there for all different directions to come at you.
[03:49] Right.
[03:50] And I like, respect,
[03:52] first of all, because it's such a difficult position to put yourself in with, not only with who you are, but just like how,
[04:01] how tense people are these days and how sensitive people are these days. So, so I'm. Yeah, you know what? I'm just laying that out there for you. That, that this is, this is telfer for you guys.
[04:13] Telfer: Yeah, thank you, Valerie. That, that means a lot to me. And what, what to say.
[04:20] As you say,
[04:23] it's been sort of a choiceless choice,
[04:26] if that makes sense. Yes. I, I realize that I've put myself in situations where,
[04:34] yeah, like indigenous Native American communities were concerned. What is Ayurveda have to do with anything?
[04:42] You know,
[04:43] the Indian faction of the Ayurvedic community was concerned and,
[04:52] and I kind of can't help myself.
[04:56] It's a little bit just baked into who I am. And all of it is purely an expression of my own curiosity.
[05:03] It's, it's all like, what is the cutting edge of what I want to play with and experiment in and learn about and what's what dots are connecting for me and what makes sense and is that of interest to anybody else?
[05:18] And it turns out there are people like you who, who are, you know, with me. They're like, yes,
[05:24] thank you, can we please have this conversation?
[05:27] And, and so I just return the gratitude to you for being one with ears to hear, eyes to see,
[05:34] and makes all the difference in the world.
[05:38] Valerie: Yeah.
[05:39] And,
[05:40] you know, I think I have questioned my own path so many times as an Ayurvedic practitioner because, like,
[05:49] at the end of the day, I want to be really not only like, true to myself,
[05:55] but I, I want to actually respond to what's going on around me, not just have the theory or the, the dogma that has already led us up to here.
[06:05] Like,
[06:06] we evolve as human beings and I don't know, I don't know where to start. I, I kind of want to.
[06:15] Telfer: Well, let me, let me respond to that because I'm with you in that.
[06:19] And you know, on the one hand,
[06:22] yes, Ayurveda is a timeless science that has been protected and preserved over millennia,
[06:30] mostly through oral traditions, and comes to us from the Indian subcontinent, which includes the regions that are now Afghanistan and Iran and Tibet. And like that whole region is the birthplace of this form of nature based medicine.
[06:47] And so we honor that tradition and the land and the people from which it came.
[06:52] Yes. Beautiful. Of course,
[06:54] and it's 2026 and,
[06:59] you know, we're in the United States or Japan or Central America.
[07:04] And one of the things that, that is so beautiful and empowering and inspiring about Ayurveda for me is that it's written into the classical text. Shashrut himself does this thing where he says, here's an example,
[07:19] here's a principle, and here's one example of this principle in action.
[07:23] And the wise physician will figure it out from there and apply it appropriately in their circumstances.
[07:32] And so for me,
[07:35] it's this paradoxical thing where my way of honoring the tradition is to do it as I perceive it to be impactful in the circumstances. I am. Right. Ayurveda in Colorado in 2026 is appropriately different than Ayurveda in Kerala 10,000 years ago.
[07:58] And, and so I, I've, you know, gotten myself in trouble with, like, I've got teachers who are mad at me. I've got, you know, revered teachers who I'm not in touch with anymore because I.
[08:11] Am I allowed to swear?
[08:13] Valerie: Oh, please do. Yeah.
[08:14] Telfer: Okay. Because. Because I. I have been drawn to these very traditional lineages and these teachers that have the way that it's been passed down and I take that, I love it and I'm so grateful and I honor it.
[08:27] And then I go out in the world and, like, buck it up a little bit.
[08:30] Valerie: Yeah.
[08:31] Telfer: And because that's, you know, again, that's just who I am and how I move.
[08:37] Valerie: Yeah.
[08:38] So I will give you a little bit of context about myself, and I've been reflecting on this a lot, is that,
[08:43] you know, as. As cultivated as I have been because of Ayurveda and yoga, I,
[08:50] I come from a consciousness of deep rage.
[08:54] And it is having lived a lifetime of seeing injustices and just seeing how humans really **** it up for themselves.
[09:07] And because we have this tendency to want to impose our own beliefs and views onto others because we see it working for ourselves. We see,
[09:18] but we then automatically assume that everybody has the same context and will benefit from the same things. And I think I. I think ultimately, yes,
[09:27] at first it all comes from a really good place, but then it gets really twisted and that is not exclusive to anything. It's. It. You see it in politics, you see it in healthcare.
[09:36] You see it in Ayurveda. You see it everywhere. And it's.
[09:40] Nothing is so beyond the touch of human beings that it.
[09:45] That it's. You know,
[09:49] how do I call this? Like, it's not beyond criticism.
[09:53] Telfer: Yeah,
[09:54] yeah. In our approach, not infallible. And one of the guiding. I almost need to get a tattoo of this is this phrase, all models are wrong,
[10:06] but some are useful.
[10:07] And so Ayurveda as a model for perceiving reality is wrong.
[10:14] It doesn't encapsulate every single complexity of the, you know, quantum realm. And, you know,
[10:23] there's stuff that is imprecise in there and. And rooted in the culture from which it came.
[10:31] And it's a very useful model.
[10:34] And. And I hear you.
[10:36] Where.
[10:37] What begins. And I recognize this in myself. You know, the first semester that I started studying Ayurveda full time,
[10:45] I was a proselytizer,
[10:48] and,
[10:49] you know,
[10:50] you could have sent me, you know, to,
[10:54] you know, Africa to try to convert people right in. In our colonial heritage.
[11:00] And.
[11:01] And it starts, as you say so innocently. It's like, oh, my God, this is really powerful for me. This is really working and changing my life.
[11:10] You should check it out.
[11:12] No, you should really check it out.
[11:15] And it goes from this very sweet human to human.
[11:19] I feel good. I want you to feel good, too.
[11:22] Until all of a sudden, we've got the Spanish Inquisition and the rest of modern world history.
[11:29] Valerie: Indeed. It just, you know, everything you're saying hits so much closer to home now because of where we're at right now this week. Right? Yeah.
[11:43] Telfer: I mean, I will say I grew up in Minneapolis.
[11:47] The little convenience store outside of which George Floyd was murdered was a couple blocks from my high school. I used to skip out at lunch to go get a snack there.
[11:57] And now what, five years later,
[12:00] Renee Goode is murdered less than a mile from that.
[12:05] Less than a mile from where my brother and his wife and infant daughter live.
[12:11] And it is terrifying,
[12:14] and it's escalating.
[12:17] And instead of what a normal government might have done in the past, like, okay, we need to have an investigation. We're gonna back off. They're just doubling down and getting more aggressive and just trying to push through that resistance.
[12:33] And in a lot of ways, they're there actively stoking the chaos, because if they create, you know, ice comes into a relatively safe situation,
[12:42] creates danger, and then they get to say, hey,
[12:46] it's dangerous here we need to send in, you know,
[12:49] military and so on. And it's a scary moment to be a human on earth because it's not like the United States is ground zero in so many ways and nobody is,
[13:04] you know, there's no place you can go in the world that isn't affected by climate change, imperialism, colonialism, you know, how many bases does the US have?
[13:13] It? It is,
[13:15] as Lao Tzu said, may you live in interesting times.
[13:20] Valerie: We do live in interesting times. I want to ask you because this could become a whole conversation.
[13:26] Telfer: However, it's a rabbit hole. I just want to share. You mentioned, you mentioned the rage and I feel that as well.
[13:35] And it's actually taken a long time and a lot of therapy and a lot of,
[13:42] you know, vision quests and sitting alone with myself to get to the root of this and understand,
[13:49] come to terms with the validity of the rage and really. Yeah, get into what, what is this?
[13:57] And it is a lot of, like humans, we're ******* it up for ourselves. Like food and medicine grow on trees.
[14:03] We could all be sitting by the river playing music and dancing if that were the political priority.
[14:13] However,
[14:14] and I'll point you to, there's a great paper, it came out in 2024, where as a thought experiment, this guy wanted to find out if we wanted to give all 8.5 billion people on the planet a decent standard of living,
[14:30] which included things, you know, a home, a cell phone, a car, a dishwasher.
[14:35] And I'm not saying that should be the goal.
[14:38] Valerie: Right.
[14:38] Telfer: But as a thought experiment,
[14:40] and what he found did all the math. The shipping containers, production capacity all over the world. He found that with 30% of current global production capacity, we could feed, clothe, house, educate every single human on the planet.
[14:58] And that's infuriating.
[15:01] Valerie: Yeah.
[15:02] Telfer: And,
[15:03] and so I think there's, there's valid rage to that.
[15:08] And,
[15:09] and what I've dealt with is twofold. One is what are helpful expressions of that rage? Just being mad eventually becomes like a self righteous sort of like masturbatory practice. It's, it's this like I am a good person because I'm furious about this.
[15:28] It's like, yeah, great.
[15:30] But ultimately just that uncontained rage just burns more things down.
[15:37] And, and so, you know, using some nice ayurvedic principles, what's the healthy expression of those red colored emotions? And it shows up as passion and energy and focus and clarity.
[15:50] And, and so if we can transmute and you know, slide ourselves down to that other end of the spectrum and and give that power a proper expression,
[16:03] that.
[16:03] That is an aspirational direction to go.
[16:07] The other thing that comes to mind is I. Should I forget who said this?
[16:12] But there's a beautiful quotation,
[16:14] something like,
[16:16] I sat with my anger long enough until she told me her name was grief.
[16:23] And that gets me too.
[16:25] Valerie: Yeah.
[16:26] Telfer: And if I really sit long enough, it makes me weep.
[16:31] And, and so that, that rage and that grief are two sides of the same coin for me where,
[16:38] yes, I'm furious that, you know, the US military is the greatest contributor to climate change and these are all enmeshed issues.
[16:48] And it's just deeply sad that humans are suffering that the more than human world is in such distress. We're living through a mass extinction event and, and it all.
[17:05] And you know, maybe we'll talk about this as we go along.
[17:08] You know, death and destruction is an appropriate expression of life. Right. Like the forest dies over and over and over again and composts itself and that's why it lives forever.
[17:20] And, and so I'm not at all against change and transformation. And on the contrary,
[17:27] however,
[17:28] there's.
[17:29] It, it's just so unskillful.
[17:32] You know, that's like, you know, the natural world does it like, let's follow her example as, as opposed to, you know, trying to impose power over other people and over.
[17:46] Over nature. This dominator culture is exhausting and deeply sad and as we said, infuriating.
[17:57] Valerie: You know, both of us.
[17:59] I have actually made the,
[18:02] the hopefully permanent move to Japan because I recognized that.
[18:11] Well, I'll tell you my, my thought process in all this, I actually saw.
[18:16] I was a freshman in high school on Long island when the planes hit the Twin Towers.
[18:25] And I think I was in a very unique situation because like 60% of us in school were like brown, Asian,
[18:37] you know, minority at least.
[18:40] And it,
[18:41] our context was so distinct, right, because there was,
[18:47] there was a wider understanding already that it's not just about the color of your skin or your religion or et cetera. There is something a,
[18:56] a lot deeper going on involving the powers of that are beyond us.
[19:04] And I just, I, I held onto that for a while and then I started seeing more and more of what this world is like, how much of their,
[19:13] of this conflict is people pitting themselves against each other.
[19:19] And you know, how our biases, how our prejudices really fuel this hatred and this righteousness that causes us to violently engage with each other.
[19:40] And you know, when I made this recent move and then all these things started happening,
[19:48] I,
[19:50] and, and seeing like what Happened to Renee. Good.
[19:56] Knowing what I know now about Vedic wisdom and like just Dharma and everything,
[20:03] it's so much more nuanced.
[20:06] What is appropriate action is so much more nuanced.
[20:09] And for me,
[20:12] I left because I see that this country requires more than just rage and protest.
[20:20] There needs to be action. And I think people have the right to defend themselves.
[20:27] I think citizens have the right to defend themselves from a government that's trying to kill them.
[20:32] I just didn't want to be.
[20:35] To have to pick up that gun.
[20:37] Right. I don't wanna. But that doesn't mean that I don't think that people have the right to. But that don't have the right to, you know.
[20:45] Yeah, I just.
[20:47] But I don't know. I have so many thoughts on this and,
[20:51] you know, at the end of the day, we.
[20:53] In order for something to happen where we can massively all live in more harmony,
[21:01] there needs to be massive action now.
[21:05] Telfer: Yeah.
[21:06] Valerie: Yeah.
[21:07] Telfer: Yep.
[21:08] And. And yeah, there's. There's so much there.
[21:11] And I. I was also a freshman in high school when. When the towers fell.
[21:19] I remember it was one of my best buddies birthdays. 9, 11. And so we were out at Buga di Beppo,
[21:25] like, looking around, like, happy birthday.
[21:30] It was like, very eerie, very, very weird moment.
[21:34] And.
[21:35] And I remember even at the time,
[21:39] there was this awareness that,
[21:44] like,
[21:45] if you understood anything about geopolitics, like, literally, if you had 9th graders understanding of geopolitics,
[21:55] you couldn't be that surprised.
[21:58] And it's not to say that, like anybody deserved any of it, but the United States as a force in the world had it coming. Eventually someone was gonna hit back.
[22:14] After decades of violent aggression and, you know, setting up bases all over the world,
[22:22] it was bound to happen.
[22:24] And that then was a very controversial stance to have. I remember getting in arguments with fellow high schoolers and high school teachers who basically said, well,
[22:39] now we're at war. We're going into Afghanistan, we're going into Iraq. And whatever your beliefs are, you have to support that choice. Because if you don't, then, you know, as.
[22:50] As w would say, you're either with us or against us. And I reject that binary.
[22:57] And, and I imagine, you know, that that may still be a controversial stance.
[23:03] And then, you know,
[23:05] just to push it one step further, you look at something like October 7th.
[23:10] And of course, we all abhor any sort of horrific violence like that.
[23:15] Like,
[23:17] nobody wants to see anybody suffer.
[23:20] Well,
[23:21] there are some psychopaths out there. I can't say nobody but 99% of the population is horrified to see images and to hear those stories.
[23:32] And when you violently repress a whole population for decades and there are no political solutions and peaceful protest is met with violence,
[23:50] the human will towards freedom and dignity is irrepressible.
[23:56] And so eventually,
[23:58] if there are no other options, violence becomes the option.
[24:05] And so that,
[24:08] you know,
[24:09] is what's happening in Minneapolis at this point. And, and eventually,
[24:13] you know,
[24:14] I, I've thought about this a lot. I'm in, I'm in Costa Rica.
[24:17] And, you know, my life has just sort of, you know, I just like surfing the wave and washed up on shore here.
[24:25] And I wonder if,
[24:28] if you have the sense, I, I have a feeling of survivor's guilt and, and it's not quite that,
[24:34] but there is this sense of,
[24:36] you know, talking to my friends who live in South Minneapolis who are trying to explain to their young children that all the sirens, all the whistles and honking in the street is probably not a car accident.
[24:51] And,
[24:52] and here I am, you know, on a mountaintop overlooking the ocean. And how, again, how dare I?
[25:00] And wouldn't it be the righteous thing to go back and get in the mix and be at the protests? But then I come back to who am I and what is the scope of my influence, the scope of my power, the limitations of my energy, attention, intelligence,
[25:24] and what is my role to play in this grander unfolding of human evolution?
[25:32] And,
[25:33] and so that, that helps me relax a little bit because, you know, if I were there, I would also,
[25:39] like, I don't own a gun. I don't know how to use a gun. I, you know, I'm a yogi and I don't think that our ice Asian friends give a ****.
[25:50] Valerie: Yeah.
[25:51] Telfer: And I don't, I don't think, you know, talking to them about the transition in their identity structure, like, what did it feel like to go from citizen to Gestapo and how is that impacting you and what were the changes in your psyche?
[26:08] And like, did, did a falcon fly by or like an American eagle land on your porch? And you took that as an omen. Like, those are the conversations I want to have.
[26:18] And I,
[26:20] I believe in the world changing power of those conversations.
[26:25] And there's a right place and a right time, and there needs to be a baseline of safety. And it's, you know, built into a lot of the Vedic prayers.
[26:34] You know, when we start class, we say this prayer that, like, thank you for the wisdom, thank you for the teachings that come down to us, and thank you for the Safety that is required for us to sit here and share with one another to.
[26:48] Because if there were a saber toothed tiger in the room,
[26:51] you know, forget about the five vayus and pronotejus ojas like we, we gotta run for our lives or fight for our lives. And,
[27:02] and so that I think is also part of my dance of anger and grief while also grappling with my own privilege where I have the privilege of being inspired by beautiful wisdom.
[27:21] And it's a privilege to be confused about why we can't all just get excited about nature based principles and eco,
[27:32] you know, what are they? Biomimicry in architecture. And why can't everybody get excited about that? Well, because 90% of the world is in survival mode and in fear for their lives.
[27:44] There's a saber tooth tiger at their door every day in, in various forms. Right.
[27:51] And, and so that's complex and I don't have a sentence that's going to round out that ramble.
[27:59] Valerie: You know, maybe it's because we are both 87 babies and we had to live through this.
[28:04] Telfer: 86.
[28:05] Valerie: 86. Okay. Because like what you just told, like what you just expressed, there's so much of that that I also can empathize with and feel.
[28:16] I was living in New Zealand when Donald Trump got elected in 2016 and I made the choice to come back.
[28:24] I will not make that choice again.
[28:27] And it was out of, it was kind of out of this like final inkling of duty that I felt.
[28:37] Telfer: Yeah.
[28:37] Valerie: And then Duty.
[28:38] Telfer: Duty to whom? Duty to whom or to what?
[28:41] Valerie: I guess the American people.
[28:43] I, the thing is like I've never been so. I've never been patriotic, I think. And because of 9, 11,
[28:48] this like feeling that I'm American and that I am bound to this country from that point onward just crumbled, crumbled and crumbled and now is non existent.
[29:00] And I am a hundred percent like that.
[29:03] I, I am okay with that and I have made my peace with that.
[29:09] Survivors.
[29:09] Telfer: Really interesting. Yeah, sorry, go on, go on.
[29:13] Valerie: Yeah. So like survivors. I know how you say it's like not quite survivor guilt, but there is this like it's.
[29:23] I made the choice to leave.
[29:27] It's a privileged choice, it's a luxurious choice. And yet it is also a choice that,
[29:35] you know, there's sacrifice in this choice as well.
[29:38] But it, there is a very deep conviction for me that I am going to do what it takes for me to live out and contribute in the way that I am going to be the best position to Right.
[29:53] Which means that maybe it's not being on the ground having a gun and going out to protest.
[29:59] Telfer: Secure your own oxygen mask.
[30:01] Valerie: Yeah.
[30:02] And like the fact that we can have this conversation and that I can spread ideas and that I can encourage people to also think beyond their rage,
[30:13] to think beyond survival,
[30:16] because I think it's, I, no matter what situation you're in, you actually do have choice.
[30:22] It's just that some choice are, are riskier than others and refugees have again and again. And like my family comes from China, originally fled China. Right.
[30:36] To, to Taiwan and then eventually to the States.
[30:39] To the States was not fleeing that was a choice, but like it just,
[30:43] you know,
[30:44] in over history people have decided they've had enough and that to move forward and to, to evolve and to grow and to thrive, they needed another context.
[30:56] And I think that's perfectly valid.
[30:58] Telfer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, humans as natural born animals on the planet, like most animals, have migration patterns and that is an appropriate aspect of life on earth.
[31:15] And, and the fact that we've demonized migration so thoroughly, it's, you know, the same way we put it up. Like there's a whole story about the invention of barbed wire and how the history of the western United States radically changed after the invention of barbed wire because all of a sudden these open planes would just randomly have a big long fence around it and it messed up all the migration patterns.
[31:45] And,
[31:46] and so, you know, we have that on a global scale at this point.
[31:52] And,
[31:53] and you know, what you said about patriotism is really,
[31:56] really interesting because,
[31:59] you know, I've lived abroad before and it's been one of the first things that I learned was to differentiate between the United States government and myself.
[32:17] As opposed to saying, oh, like we kidnapped Nicolas Maduro.
[32:22] No, the United States government kidnapped Maduro and I happen to hold a United States passport.
[32:31] But there's a difference between those two entities. I do not include myself in that. We.
[32:38] And,
[32:39] and, but that issue of patriotism, I've thought about this a lot because I do have patriotic bones and I, I, I do and I've done. But trying to figure that out, it's like, okay, I really disagree with basically everything the United States has done in terms of foreign policy for the last hundred years.
[33:01] And you know, our domestic policy is anti human in so many ways. And like, so what is it?
[33:10] And it comes down to,
[33:12] it starts with the land,
[33:14] like the actual land that is the United States and North America.
[33:21] There is such profound magic and beauty and depth of connection available there.
[33:29] And so I've spent years of my life wandering mostly the western United States and been in canyons and on mountaintops and in valleys and in rivers.
[33:42] And I deeply love this land.
[33:48] And, and that is also a source of sort of anger when I hear people who have,
[33:53] you know, never left their little hometown and they say, I love this land. It's like you don't know what you're talking about.
[34:02] I agree with you, but we're talking about different things.
[34:05] And, and then,
[34:07] and then the other aspect of it is, is the humans.
[34:10] Valerie: Yeah.
[34:10] Telfer: And, and the wide spectrum of humans that I've been able to encounter and know again. Growing up in Minneapolis,
[34:20] playing on the soccer team at Minneapolis South High School, had a bunch of Somali friends,
[34:26] some of the coolest,
[34:28] funniest, kindest talented people I met at that time.
[34:35] And just by existing,
[34:39] the melting pot is a real thing where there are people from all over the world. Where again, like you go to China,
[34:47] there's mostly Chinese people.
[34:49] Right.
[34:51] And so it is,
[34:52] and that has its power and beauty as well. But growing up in the United States, like,
[34:59] is growing up a world citizen if you do it right.
[35:04] Right.
[35:04] And,
[35:06] and so I've, I've talked to friends who are, you know,
[35:12] European friends, Central and South American friends.
[35:15] And, and their comments are that from their observation,
[35:19] generally speaking,
[35:21] Americans are the most self centered,
[35:25] like insular,
[35:26] like thinking the whole world revolves around them,
[35:29] generally speaking.
[35:31] Excuse me.
[35:33] And the Americans they know,
[35:37] who have been able to break out of that are their favorite people.
[35:42] And, and so there's something about like, if we can crack ourselves open, if we have the courage to let go go and to break through that little seed that, that little shell of like, America is the greatest country on earth.
[35:58] It's like, have you been to Patagonia?
[36:01] You know, have you been to Scandinavia?
[36:04] But, and, but it takes breaking through that shell and being born into a greater reality that then allows you to turn around and be like, oh,
[36:15] this place is also amazing. This.
[36:17] I am proud of the land that gave birth to me.
[36:23] Yeah. So that's,
[36:25] that's my relationship with patriotism.
[36:28] Valerie: Yeah. And I think there is a difference.
[36:30] The thing is,
[36:32] we're taught that like our nationality is some kind of like God given thing,
[36:40] but a nation is a completely made up construct.
[36:45] Right.
[36:45] Telfer: Yeah. Yeah, we're all earthlings.
[36:48] Valerie: Yeah, we're all earthlings. We do happen to have a, somewhat of a,
[36:53] somewhat of a cohesive culture also because we do identify as nation and some of that has been really cool.
[37:03] And then recently, maybe not so Cool. You know.
[37:09] Telfer: And there's paradox in that because, you know,
[37:13] as millennials, sure. You also have a whole bunch of friends who have the dream of like, oh, yeah, we're gonna buy a big piece of land and we're gonna create a village.
[37:21] And I just wanna live in community with my friends. And everybody wants to live in community.
[37:27] And that's usually spoken by people who never have lived in community.
[37:32] However, there's an intelligence there. Excuse me again,
[37:35] frog in my throat.
[37:37] There's an intelligent longing there, recognizing that there is something about shared values,
[37:46] a shared North Star,
[37:49] like, hey, I believe in this, you believe in, this is the way we want to live. Let's run in that direction together.
[37:55] Right?
[37:56] And that's very powerful. That changes the world, that makes human life worth living.
[38:03] And as we said at the beginning, taken to the extreme,
[38:07] it becomes cult,
[38:09] it becomes a repressive government.
[38:12] It. It becomes prejudice against anyone who doesn't speak that language or share that particular mythological origin story.
[38:23] So, yeah.
[38:29] Valerie: Yeah,
[38:30] I mean, there's just, we, we are fighting against ourselves in so many ways,
[38:37] like internally, you know,
[38:40] and.
[38:41] Well, let's, let's ask. I want to ask you this because I said I would.
[38:45] And this is a From the Ashes podcast. So the transition from Veda Dave to Telfer.
[38:51] Telfer: Yeah,
[38:52] yeah.
[38:54] Where to begin with that?
[38:57] So since I think it was about 2014 when I bought the domain name vedadave.com and I had just started my 4 year Ayurvedic Dr. Program and I'd been studying Ayurveda, Vedic astrology, yoga really seriously since 20 2009.
[39:24] Graduated college in 08.
[39:27] The economy wasn't great for anybody in that moment.
[39:32] And I was an English major with a minor in music.
[39:36] And so there were exactly zero jobs. And so I ended up at an ashram in California.
[39:44] And so that's where I dove deep into yoga, lifestyle,
[39:51] Vedic astrology, and the first karma yoga role they gave me was in the kitchen.
[39:57] And so I was working in the garden and in the kitchen with an Ayurvedic chef who also happened to have been in Palestine multiple times and was shot in the head with a rubber bullet by the IDF.
[40:13] And so as a 2122 year old man started, had my.
[40:18] Had my. I remember saying to him once about that whole reason, well, it's complicated. And he explained how it's actually not that complicated. So anyway,
[40:27] so Fast forward, it's 2014 and I realize that my devotion to the Vedic sciences is a beautiful thing,
[40:40] but capitalism doesn't care And I'm going to need to make money doing this if I'm going to spend four years studying this full time. I need to build a brand around it and I need to figure out how I'm going to offer that to the world.
[40:59] And so, you know, my first name is David.
[41:01] Lots of people know me as Dave and I started with Ayurveda Dave and. And then all of a sudden it was just so obvious. Veda Dave. It's cute, it's catchy, it's the same four letters rearranged,
[41:14] you know,
[41:16] and that served me well for a decade or more.
[41:21] And, and it was really,
[41:25] yeah, beginning of 2025. 2025. Shook the snow globe of my life. Raise your hand if you're with me. And.
[41:33] And so Telfer,
[41:36] my name is David Telfer McConaughey Telfer is my middle name. It comes from my mother's side of the family. It's my Scottish family name.
[41:47] Both my grandparents born in Scotland,
[41:51] immigrated to Canada.
[41:53] And there have always been pockets of people in my life who knew me as Telfer or Telf.
[41:59] And I don't know how that happened, but it just,
[42:02] they're just these little crews of humans who know me as Telfer and I always loved that. But for some reason I never felt like I had permission to actually claim it and introduce myself as Telfer and ask people to call me Telfer because everybody knows me as Dave or David.
[42:19] And which one do you prefer? I don't care.
[42:22] And so as over the last two years I set down Veda Dave. It was early 2014. 2014, ha. 2020. Early 2024, when I was struggling and Veda Dave wasn't,
[42:41] you know, having the reach that I wanted it to and wasn't paying the bills. And so I went and got a job as a mover, like, you know, picking up heavy boxes and setting them down somewhere else and just let Veda Dev go dormant for a minute to reassess and reevaluate.
[43:00] And that led me to being the event director for a guy named Dr. Zach Bush for almost two years.
[43:09] And that was educational, evolutionary, expansive, empowering in so many ways. And it was nice to.
[43:19] There's like, let Veda Dave sit on the shelf.
[43:23] And.
[43:24] And so then come 2025,
[43:29] my 80 year old uncle, who's the only other man I know, who is known as Telfer,
[43:36] says he wants to go to Burning man.
[43:39] And, and he doesn't walk so well, he's a little wobbly,
[43:43] but he, he wants to go to Burning Man. And so there we are.
[43:47] And this experience with Zach, he'd been encouraging me to prepare to relaunch my own offerings.
[43:56] Basically saying, hey, like, this is great and you're going to outgrow this role really quickly and you need to. It's like very humbling to have someone with a global voice like Zach say,
[44:10] hey, like,
[44:11] you need to go do your own thing because it's important and you've got things to say and you don't want to play second fiddle to me. It's like, okay, are you sure?
[44:18] I kind of like just having a job.
[44:21] So. So with that encouragement that planted the seeds, like, okay, I'll relaunch Beta Dave. But that just wasn't right. I could just feel that that Veda Dave identity had reached some sort of expiration date.
[44:34] And.
[44:35] And so here we are at Burning man, me and my 80 year old uncle and,
[44:41] and I sit him down and I tell him a little bit of the story and request his blessing to start introducing myself as Telfer and. And to announce myself to the world in a professional way as Telfer and.
[44:58] And to become known,
[45:00] become visible as Telfer.
[45:02] And he was thrilled. He loved it. So got the blessing from my elder.
[45:08] And the next step that I took is I was careful to bring with me all of the remaining Veda Dev business cards that I had.
[45:18] And so on the final morning,
[45:21] I went over to the temple and sat right in the center and I had a little personal ceremony where I offered Vedadeva up to the funereal pyre that is the temple at the burn.
[45:40] And so that was a powerful moment of transition, of a handing of the baton,
[45:49] both generationally within my family, but also within my own life and letting an identity that I'd been with for 12 years that had served me well,
[46:03] that was such a beautiful being.
[46:08] And to let it burn and to let it be composted and to surrender it and to release that energy so that it can be recycled throughout the universe. And maybe some of it comes back to me,
[46:21] but who knows?
[46:23] And. And to let Telfer be born as it wants to move through me.
[46:29] And it's been so fun because of course, I looked up the etymology of, of the name Telfer and it goes back to.
[46:40] It's. It's very much Scottish, but as the word has French origins, Taillefer means to cut iron,
[46:48] literally just means to cut iron. And.
[46:51] But in Scottish tradition,
[46:53] it was a nickname for a fierce warrior, iron piercer, one who pierces the iron of their adversaries, whatever.
[47:02] And I Don't have anything that grandiose about it. Like my ancestors were metal workers.
[47:08] Like they literally were the blacksmith.
[47:10] And I like to dream that maybe they were alchemists playing with metal as well, but that's my own fantasy.
[47:18] And then I went on Urban Dictionary just out of curiosity, you know, the,
[47:22] the, or the modern day Oracle of Delphi, which is Google,
[47:27] and,
[47:28] and went on Urban Dictionary and Urban Dictionary says that Telfer means one who destroys without malice.
[47:39] And that.
[47:42] That's it.
[47:43] Yeah,
[47:45] that when I read that,
[47:49] my whole life just kind of clicked.
[47:53] Whereas it's like dominoes falling. Click, click, click, click, click all into place. It's like, oh, that's what I've been doing.
[48:02] And,
[48:02] and made so much sense. And, and you know, the past doesn't change,
[48:07] but the story you have about the past changes your relationship to it, changes how you feel about it. And that, that changes that. That is how we change the past.
[48:18] And so it allowed this complete reframe of who I am and what I'm doing.
[48:22] And I look at, okay, what am I doing with Ayurveda? What am I doing with Vedic astrology? I'm destroying without malice.
[48:28] Hey, let's look at the identity structures, the daily habits, the ways of knowing, the ways of making meaning. And in your life, let's look at the ways that those are maybe no longer serving you or those identities that have expired, those ways of being that are no longer accurate or up to date.
[48:46] And let's just,
[48:47] let's just let them go. I'm not mad at them. I'm not mad at Veda Dave for having existed. I have no malice whatsoever towards Veda Dave. And I burnt him in a temple.
[49:00] And so this is part of the,
[49:03] the work that I'm more consciously aware of doing these days,
[49:08] which is to help myself and help others identify what is that core identity? What is that authentic self at the center of your being.
[49:21] And only when we know that can we identify an effective delivery system.
[49:26] And so this was also one of my teachers in the Animas Valley Institute tradition of nature based psychotherapy.
[49:34] He was talking to a whole group, but he sort of turned and looked at me as he said it. He, he said, some of us confuse a delivery system for an authentic identity.
[49:45] And so I had literally named myself Ayurveda Day.
[49:51] And so what's the difference between Ayurveda, the delivery system for my gifts, and my, my identity? And so there, there was no distinction. And so when I didn't have a full clinic of Ayurveda clients,
[50:05] my identity crumbled and I didn't know who I was and I didn't have any self worth and everything went to **** because my identity and what I was doing to deliver the gifts were entangled.
[50:21] Whereas if I pull back and tune into that more like vertical plane. Okay, who am I? What helps me stand upright and in the world, what's the axis around which I'm spinning?
[50:33] Well, now I know myself as Telfer, the one who destroys without malice.
[50:39] And that just, you know,
[50:42] sends roots deep into the earth. Sends my crown chakra exploding into space.
[50:49] Yes,
[50:50] that and, and then once I'm established in that, then there are 10,008 different delivery systems.
[50:58] Right. We can, I'm doing it right now. It can look like an astrology and it can look like a conversation in the line of the grocery store. It can, you know, it looks like me on the dance floor.
[51:09] Like whatever I'm doing can be a delivery system for Telfer.
[51:16] Yeah,
[51:17] but what I do, how I share the gifts that are innate to Telfer,
[51:23] kind of doesn't matter.
[51:24] And, and if I figure out a way that those gifts also help me pay my rent,
[51:33] awesome.
[51:34] But,
[51:35] but the liberating part of that is that,
[51:39] you know, Telfer could choose garbage collector as, as a delivery system.
[51:47] And, and we can think of find the mythopoetic significance of that. And even,
[51:53] even, you know, choosing to become a mover isn't that interesting? Isn't that an interesting choice? Of all the sort of mundane manual labor jobs I could have gotten to pay the bills in this interim period,
[52:07] I specifically chose a job where I was meeting people in their moment of transition.
[52:14] Literally one of the most vulnerable moments of someone's life where they are releasing an identity as the one who lives at this address and stepping across a threshold, literally walking out that door, stepping across that threshold for the last time, and then walking across the next threshold,
[52:35] you know, and like they would follow the moving truck. We would literally cross the threshold from one house to the other together and. Full spectrum. Right. Sometimes we would go to one apartment, then the next, then to the house because it's, it's a couple moving in together.
[52:50] Hooray.
[52:52] Sometimes we would go to one house and then an apartment because it's a couple getting divorced.
[52:56] Hooray. You know, congratulations and condolences.
[53:01] So again, like,
[53:04] and, and so this is, this is what I'm obviously super excited about and passionate about and, and comes from this deep well of enthusiasm and sense of like soul level offering of who I am in the world is identifying these moments of transition.
[53:25] And,
[53:26] you know,
[53:27] I think it was Donald Rumsfeld or maybe Henry Kissinger who said, never waste a crisis.
[53:32] Right.
[53:33] And of course, there's some malevolent geopolitical quality to that, but in your personal life. Yeah. Never waste a crisis. Oh, your relationship just ended. Awesome.
[53:44] What a profound opportunity to.
[53:47] Oh, like the floor just fell out from underneath you. Of all the reference points that, you know, to be yourself, your home, your job, your relationship, whatever it may be.
[53:56] Awesome. Now you're closer to bedrock.
[54:00] And let's not waste that opportunity when everything is changing anyway.
[54:05] Let's change it in the direction of authenticity, of soul level, self understanding,
[54:13] and. And find that vertical axis around which the rest of your life can now orbit, as opposed to panicking and invading Venezuela,
[54:24] metaphorically.
[54:27] Valerie: That was perfect. Thank you. You know what I really hear?
[54:31] Telfer: Long story long.
[54:34] Valerie: Well, what I'm hearing from that really is this, like, grounding into a way of being that permeates and then is. Is consistent throughout.
[54:42] No matter what moment you are in, no matter what role you're stepping into, you are still with your. Your core is telfer.
[54:51] And that allows you to really be in your dharma no matter what you're doing.
[54:58] And this is something I actually was talking about earlier today with other people and actually navigating my own life too,
[55:08] recently.
[55:09] Right, yeah.
[55:11] Telfer: Made a big transition.
[55:12] Valerie: I did. I was the one who was moving.
[55:16] I.
[55:17] Yeah,
[55:17] I crossed over to the other side.
[55:21] And I actually,
[55:22] you know, very intentionally recently took on a job at a cafe here in Japan.
[55:31] Not because. And, and it's. It's probably one of the lowest paying jobs I can get.
[55:36] You know, I could teach English and I can be doing much better, or, you know, I would do other stuff too. But this was a very deliberate choice.
[55:45] And it was a deliberate choice. I. And you and I both have been in Kate Stillman's world. So we know fractals and, and, and identity, evolution patterns. I'm going to add a little bit jargon here just so we can have this conversation.
[55:58] Telfer: Kate.
[55:59] Valerie: Kate,
[56:01] There is a part of me that has always been very good at throwing myself into an unknown fire and navigating and like, really gaining strength from it.
[56:13] And so I decided this time, instead of doing what I'm comfortable with,
[56:17] I am going to put myself into the position of the most beginner I could possibly be. I can read a little Japanese, I can speak a little bit, but that doesn't mean that I have full grasp of anything that's going on.
[56:30] I Don't know the script. I don't know how to politely bow. And the,
[56:35] the, the honorific terms I need to say to customers.
[56:39] And yet I am deciding to do this because this is part of my next evolution,
[56:44] and it is to be integrated so that I can be with anybody really. Like,
[56:53] they don't have to speak the same language. They don't have to, you know, and I can be the one to, to come in and really open people up.
[57:02] Right.
[57:03] Provide the context for others to open up, because I am opening up.
[57:07] Yeah. And there's. There's a beauty and there's a.
[57:11] There's something so settling. Right. It's the Svasta piece of Ayurveda. To be settled in the self is true health. Right. There's something so settling in knowing that you are good and in any situation.
[57:23] Telfer: Yeah. Basic okayness.
[57:26] Valerie: Basic. Okay.
[57:27] Telfer: It's the, the most aspirational state I,
[57:31] I know of.
[57:33] And,
[57:34] and that.
[57:35] Wow. Thank you for sharing that. Because,
[57:37] you know, at the beginning, you talked about me sticking my neck out. Like, I see you doing the same thing.
[57:42] And, and what a. What a radical choice. And, and I hear that on some level, it maybe was in the category of choiceless choice, where there was a call to adventure and,
[57:55] you know, what else. What else were you gonna do to. To refuse the call multiplies your suffering, and the call is just gonna keep getting stronger.
[58:05] And,
[58:06] and so, okay, you're compelled to make a big change,
[58:10] but then within that,
[58:12] you.
[58:12] There's a spectrum of intensity that you can choose.
[58:18] And I really hear this long,
[58:22] to crack yourself open and make yourself available,
[58:26] to make yourself vulnerable.
[58:28] It's a really interesting form of a vision fast,
[58:32] where it's the same energetic signature as why does one go out into the vast wilderness alone with nothing but water for four, seven days and just sit there.
[58:48] It's to make ourselves available.
[58:51] It's. It's to strip away as much pretense as many of the protector parts, as many of the old stories that are, you know, clouding or distorting the. The information that comes into our field and distorting our interpretations of the external world, our interpretations of who we are.
[59:11] And by. And you're doing the same thing by throwing yourself into this situation where you are supremely vulnerable.
[59:18] You don't. You. You can't read the menu that you're giving to the people that you're supposed to serve. You're supposed to be the expert on the menu and, and just making yourself as available as possible for the most interesting conversation you could possibly be having with the world.
[59:41] And, and that, that,
[59:43] that takes a bunch of courage, doesn't it?
[59:45] Valerie: Yeah, courage.
[59:47] I've,
[59:48] I've been reading Renee Brown's book on,
[59:51] and she talks a lot about this. Like,
[59:53] true vulnerability takes courage.
[59:56] You can't have one without the other.
[59:58] Yeah, right.
[01:00:02] Telfer: A friend of mine once coined the, the phrase vulnerageous,
[01:00:07] vulnerable, courageous. And it also then has the,
[01:00:10] the energy of outrageous and, and it's just absurd. Like, to be that vulnerable takes so much courage. And,
[01:00:20] and yeah, I,
[01:00:21] I love Brene Brown's work. Been. Been what, what is that book called? Something. Something about. I've been learning from her about leadership.
[01:00:29] Valerie: Yeah.
[01:00:29] Telfer: Because part of Edge Zone, my, you know, evolutionary molting that's happening right now is going from serving other people's inspiring projects to allowing or inviting other people to serve my inspiring project.
[01:00:49] So for the first time, I've always been a solo entrepreneur and, and I've in the meantime committed myself, thrown my whole life into someone else's inspiring project. And eventually there are power struggles and,
[01:01:04] you know, it's not my project and that becomes a problem.
[01:01:07] And, and so, okay.
[01:01:10] Grappling with the fact that it needs to be my project.
[01:01:13] And then I hired a bookkeeper,
[01:01:16] I hired a fractional chief marketing officer to help me, you know, filling in what are the things that are in my genius zone and what are the things that are not.
[01:01:26] And, and to value my own work enough to trust that it's worthy of other people's time and energy and it's, it's worthy of my own investment. Right. Gotta pay people if you want em to, to, to help and it's, it's worth that.
[01:01:43] Valerie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:01:49] Telfer: So, okay, we, we were talking about you and then I, I habitually made it about me. So. Okay, so you're working in a cafe and I wonder if you have a moment that sticks out to you.
[01:02:05] And what I'm curious about is I would love to know what has been the moment of the greatest emotional intensity in that job so far?
[01:02:19] And that could be full spectrum joy,
[01:02:22] discomfort. But I'm, I'm kind of curious about, like to simplify the question, what's the most uncomfortable you felt in that work so far?
[01:02:30] Valerie: Well, it hasn't been very long. Honestly. I had my orientation yesterday.
[01:02:34] Telfer: Right. Oh, okay.
[01:02:35] Valerie: But the thing is,
[01:02:37] you know, I,
[01:02:38] the last time I worked in Japan, it was 13 years ago and I was an English teacher.
[01:02:44] Everything was done for me. Like my supervisor, if she needed to be there to translate.
[01:02:49] She was there.
[01:02:50] You know, I had people in my corner.
[01:02:52] This is completely different.
[01:02:54] And it's interesting because Japan has evolved and they are no longer so xenophobic. Like, and they're no longer. So you would be surprised, right? Sometimes, like if you were me 13 years ago, you would be surprised at some of the things that I heard.
[01:03:12] Like, I used. There was one time I went to this dance studio to take a dance class and the front desk lady was like, you're American but you're not blonde.
[01:03:20] Like weird things like that where it's like very simple.
[01:03:23] Yeah. Just misunderstandings of what foreigner is this time around. Like there are so many foreigners around. Plus there's a. There has been a shift in I think the consciousness because nobody's treating me like as if I come from a different country.
[01:03:43] And there's. There's good things about that and there's also terrifying things about that because as soon as I walk into the room, I am one of them.
[01:03:51] And I needed to be. To be able to do what they do,
[01:03:55] which includes reading the contracts and saying the phrases and all that, which I really don't,
[01:04:01] if I'm going to be honest. Like, I think I have a grasp of 50% of that right now. So like, one of my things I'm going to be doing this weekend for sure is studying a lot.
[01:04:12] And so I am just going to continue to just throw myself into this unknown. There is still also an aspect,
[01:04:18] the way that Japanese work culture is that there is just a lot of that.
[01:04:23] You get thrown into the fire and you have to figure things out. You are going to be asked to do things that you didn't sign up to do. And that's part of the experience.
[01:04:31] So I'm ready. I'm ready and I'm ready to fail and I'm ready to look dumb.
[01:04:37] I'm ready to not know,
[01:04:39] to be. To be accidentally rude.
[01:04:42] And I'm just a lot more forgiving to myself than I was 13 years ago, that's for sure. I've learned a lot and I've learned a lot about self forgiveness. I've learned a lot about like, you can't be everything to everyone.
[01:04:56] So you know, going in, I am just a lot stronger and that gives me like a lot of strength.
[01:05:03] Yeah. And hope.
[01:05:05] Telfer: Yeah.
[01:05:05] Valerie: Yeah.
[01:05:06] Telfer: Strong enough to, to **** it up.
[01:05:10] Valerie: Yeah.
[01:05:11] Telfer: And. And like strong enough to be ripped to shreds in so many ways. Right. Strong enough to suck at it for a little bit.
[01:05:19] And.
[01:05:20] And you know, there will be moments I'm sure of what we call an authentic failure.
[01:05:27] Right. Where you studied, you did everything, you put yourself in this situation to, you know, have a great encounter and it just goes sideways and it's the way of the world of soul just sort of poking at you like, are you sure?
[01:05:44] Are you sure you're strong enough to be totally dismantled and rebuilt in this way?
[01:05:51] And that's.
[01:05:53] I've been so grateful for this reframe because it is a total reframe of what might commonly be interpreted as failure and, and an indication that you need to do something different, as if there's something wrong.
[01:06:09] It's actually a milestone along the path towards,
[01:06:13] in the direction that you're being called.
[01:06:16] Valerie: Yeah.
[01:06:18] Telfer: And so, yeah, I, I'm really curious to, to hear how this,
[01:06:23] how this journey unfolds for you. And,
[01:06:27] and again,
[01:06:28] it makes me think of.
[01:06:30] So there's a book called Iron John which is by Robert Bly and it's one of the foundational texts of the modern men's work movement.
[01:06:40] And it's,
[01:06:42] you know,
[01:06:43] one. I've read it six times and at various stages in my life and it is different every time because I'm different.
[01:06:50] And there's a,
[01:06:52] and it's all about men's development, but it's pretty universal human development.
[01:06:57] And there's a phase where there's a phase that's called ashes work.
[01:07:04] And, and it's when this boy with golden hair who has all these gifts and magic to share with the world has to go and work in the kitchen, which in the castle is like underground.
[01:07:18] And he's basically just shoveling coal, you know, feeding the fire, clearing out the ashes, feeding the fire, clearing out the ashes and,
[01:07:26] and you know, gets all sooty and it's ash's work and, and that's what I consider there, there's in multiple phases. You know, we all go through this cycle over and over again.
[01:07:38] Just when we think we've reached the pinnacle, we're back at the beginning.
[01:07:42] But an example of that in my life is working as a mover where it's like, oh, I'm Veda Dave. I, you know, give astrology readings and give people life changing advice and tell them who they are.
[01:07:55] Bullshit, man.
[01:07:57] Go work as a mover and you know, just pick up heavy things and set them down somewhere else.
[01:08:05] And,
[01:08:06] and then it's so funny as happens in the story, he's doing this ashes work and like a piece of his golden hair slips out and the king's daughter notices it and that sets off a whole Other series of events.
[01:08:18] And,
[01:08:19] and so as I was moving and like, you know,
[01:08:22] talking to the people and having them sign the contracts and pay the bill or whatever,
[01:08:26] my golden hair would slip out. And all of a sudden we'd be in a counseling conversation and my therapist hat would be on and, and they'd look at me like, wait, who are you?
[01:08:37] Exactly like, ah, don't worry about it. Thank you.
[01:08:42] And so, so yeah, I. Again, I. I see you stepping into some ashes work and, And I'm excited for you in that because. Because your golden hair is gonna slip out from under your bonnet and.
[01:08:56] And something else is, is gonna happen.
[01:08:59] And.
[01:09:00] And you know, because. Because, you know,
[01:09:03] with all respect to everyone in the service industry,
[01:09:07] service industry is the most like, some of my favorite people, some of the best humans I know have spent a lifetime in the service industry. Nothing against that whatsoever. And Valerie, I just get the sense that your dharma and your destiny does not end with being a server in a little cafe.
[01:09:28] Just, just a guess. Just.
[01:09:29] Valerie: It's a feeling I have.
[01:09:31] Thank you. Yes. And you know, this is all.
[01:09:35] The thing is like, this is all visioning. This is all part of the vision and it all will come together.
[01:09:43] We are. I'm going to wrap this interview up because it's been an awesome conversation, but there is one.
[01:09:48] Telfer: We've talked about everything. There's nothing else to talk about. We're done here.
[01:09:54] Valerie: But I do want to ask one,
[01:09:56] one question to you because you talk and you touch upon destroying without malice.
[01:10:03] And one of the things that I actually was talking about with Clients Day,
[01:10:07] actually in Kate's world today is this like needing to let go, to surrender to. To drop that which is holding us back. Those old identities, those.
[01:10:21] Those old ways of being right that,
[01:10:25] that once served us so well.
[01:10:27] And yet they're no longer have a place.
[01:10:32] So there's this theme of death and burning.
[01:10:36] And I know this is going to be a big question, but what do you see as needing to be burnt at the stake now for humanity to move forward?
[01:10:49] Telfer: Hmm.
[01:10:55] There are a thousand and eight answers to that.
[01:11:00] And the first thought, best thought is actually what.
[01:11:07] What needs to die is the demonization of death.
[01:11:15] So much of western culture is, you know, worship of youth and,
[01:11:22] and to the point where,
[01:11:24] you know, Trump is just a 12 year old who's now 80,
[01:11:29] right? Psycho. Emotionally, he's a little boy.
[01:11:32] And, and when he's painting everything gold and having wrestling matches in the rose garden,
[01:11:39] all the other 12 year olds who have grown old are like sick.
[01:11:43] That's cool.
[01:11:45] And.
[01:11:46] And so there's this epidemic of worshiping the adolescent.
[01:11:56] And.
[01:11:58] And it is.
[01:12:00] And again,
[01:12:00] adolescence is a beautiful phase,
[01:12:03] such a powerful evolutionary moment in life,
[01:12:09] and it is.
[01:12:12] So many of us get stuck there because that is when biology stops and culture and self cultivation come in, right? Like biologically, a human baby is born,
[01:12:30] and as long as it's got, like, enough food, sort of like, you know, biology, it'll. It'll grow and get stronger and go through the phases, and then it goes through puberty.
[01:12:39] And once it goes through puberty, it's ready to reproduce. Right? And that's sort of like the biological process and,
[01:12:46] and the psycho emotional, the psycho spiritual evolution keeps up until then.
[01:12:54] But after puberty,
[01:12:57] it's up to the culture. It's up to the elders, it's up to the individual themselves to continue evolving into an authentic adult and eventually an elder.
[01:13:11] And,
[01:13:12] and so you look at all the Hollywood movies,
[01:13:15] all the rom coms, where,
[01:13:18] you know, the one that is the, the guy that the woman should go for is actually like the adolescent one who's super playful and funny and silly as opposed to, like, you know, the guy she's currently engaged to who's just sitting quietly having an adult conversation with his dad or something,
[01:13:39] you know, and, and how terrible is that?
[01:13:42] And, and so that's maybe a stupid example.
[01:13:46] But,
[01:13:47] but it, but it's also real. It's also deeply encoded into culture.
[01:13:51] That being 16,
[01:13:55] you know, I want to be forever 21 or whatever.
[01:13:59] And, and so that needs to burn.
[01:14:02] And, and I want to see a culture that goes back to reverence of elders.
[01:14:10] You know, we, we put our,
[01:14:12] you know,
[01:14:14] I, I feel old, you know, turning 40 this year. I don't even know any celebrity I name is going to age myself. But anyway, there's a bunch of young hot people out in the world that get put on billboards and everything.
[01:14:28] And meanwhile, our elders are, you know, sort of warehoused in nursing homes.
[01:14:35] And,
[01:14:37] and I would like to see that reversed because some of the coolest people I know are old and don't talk that much.
[01:14:47] But what they do say I want to write down or, or like, have carved into my bones.
[01:14:55] And so again, long, long story long.
[01:14:59] That's.
[01:15:01] That's one answer to a really good question.
[01:15:05] Valerie: Yeah, and we, we're gonna sit with that one for a while because that can be widely applied. And. Yeah, thank you for that.
[01:15:15] Telfer: Well, and, and just to finish the thought, as, as I'm thinking about one step further,
[01:15:20] I believe that the United States is going through an adolescent period as a country.
[01:15:25] Valerie: That's what I was gonna say.
[01:15:27] Telfer: And we're a little bit stuck, you know,
[01:15:30] our mom who has provided us everything. Mom being the land,
[01:15:36] right? This generative,
[01:15:38] abundant land that let, let the us,
[01:15:41] you know, the Midwest is the breadbasket of the world. All this amazing, you know, and we're rebelling against mom,
[01:15:49] **** you, mom.
[01:15:51] And doing a bunch of stuff, stupid ****.
[01:15:54] And,
[01:15:55] and I, I see that as what's happening on the planet in a larger way where we're in this transition. And I think this idea comes from Charles Eisenstein, but adopted it as my own.
[01:16:05] We as a species are moving from Mother Earth to Lover Earth and, and in between we're in this adolescent phase where, you know, a child goes to its mother and asks for milk or attention or whatever it needs when without regard for the mother's capacity to offer anything.
[01:16:25] Mom, you're tired, you're stressed, you're malnourished, you're freaking out about a thousand things, but your child needs you and does not care or notice that you don't have it right now.
[01:16:38] And so that's been humanity's relationship with Mother Earth for millennia. And again, food grows on trees, medicine grows on trees.
[01:16:47] Everything you need is just here.
[01:16:49] And so hun, gather whatever, you're good.
[01:16:53] And,
[01:16:54] and we're currently in this adolescent phase where we're rebelling. We're cutting her down, we're burning her, we're, you know, again, it's a big **** you, mom, I'm stealing $20 out of your wallet.
[01:17:07] Right? Except it's all the oil out of, out of the ground.
[01:17:11] And that is, you know, mostly talking about like male development here. That's like,
[01:17:17] you know, boys who like a girl are mean to her, right?
[01:17:21] And,
[01:17:22] and so then the transition, the, the mature expression of that is Lover Earth and that the, the difference between mother and lover,
[01:17:32] all you Freudians out there is,
[01:17:36] is that the lover is a horizontal relationship.
[01:17:40] There's give and take, there's mutual nourishment,
[01:17:44] there's mutual consideration,
[01:17:47] and it's a partnership, it's teamwork.
[01:17:51] And so that is the sort of macro scale aspiration that I hold for humanity is that we can survive the various ongoing drunk driving accidents of our teenage years as a species and get to a point where we're able to maintain a healthy, loving relationship with the more than human world.
[01:18:14] Valerie: Beautifully said.
[01:18:16] All right,
[01:18:17] well, thank you,
[01:18:19] Telfer, for this awesome conversation,
[01:18:22] for daring to go to the places that not many dare to go and I look forward.
[01:18:29] I really want to see what happens,
[01:18:32] you know, and how we continue.
[01:18:33] Telfer: May you live in interesting times.
[01:18:35] Valerie: Yeah.
[01:18:35] Telfer: It's not boring. You wouldn't want to get bored.
[01:18:38] Valerie: No. Well, we're not bored. Yeah.
[01:18:44] Telfer: Well, thank you, Valerie.
[01:18:45] Valerie: This is.
[01:18:45] Telfer: This has been a joy and it's. It's nice to.
[01:18:50] Yeah. Have a conversation where anything is possible. There's a practice. We maybe did some experimental threshold crossings this evening. Just like, what if we. What if we say this.
[01:19:01] What does it feel like to say that publicly? So we'll. We shall see. But yeah. It's wonderful to be here with you. Thanks for being a comrade and ally in this, in this journey.
[01:19:11] Happy to share Planet Earth with you these days.
[01:19:15] Valerie: Thank you. Likewise.
[01:19:16] Thanks for tuning in to from the Ashes. If this episode sparked something in you, remember your evolution matters and we're rooting for you every step of the way.
[01:19:26] For coaching, community and free resources to help you rise into your full potential,
[01:19:32] visit thevibrantvisionary.com and download the Vibrant Visionary Blueprint, your free guide to reclaim your energy, clarity and creative fire.
[01:19:42] If you love this episode, please share it with a friend or tag me Valerie on Instagram vibrantvisionary Valley.
[01:19:49] I'd love to hear what resonated for you.
[01:19:52] Until next time, keep rising.
