[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew,
[00:01] reconnect.
[00:03] Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where bold conversations empower healing and authentic, vibrant living.
[00:09] I'm your host, Valerie Huang Beck, and I'm on a mission to evolve the dialogue that moves humanity harmoniously forward.
[00:17] Tarna: And the fire in the darkest night of Phoenix burns. It's ready for flight. Shadows may come try to tear you apart, but you're the flame that ignites.
[00:31] Valerie: Hey, everyone.
[00:32] Welcome back to from the Ashes podcast.
[00:35] I have Tarna Fuller back with us here today.
[00:39] And as you might remember from the previous episode, she is the founder of the Lotus, Lotus Honey Health. Is there a collective behind that? Or is it.
[00:47] Tarna: Oh, my God.
[00:48] Fuller Health Club,
[00:50] Fuller Health Club,
[00:51] Lotus Honey Health, and Fuller Health program is what I'm kind of leaning forward now because I'm like, it's a whole program. It's not just a. A club.
[00:59] Valerie: But yes, I love how we're butchering it from the beginning, but we might keep it in there for authenticity sake. Okay, that's.
[01:05] Tarna: Yeah, totally. Okay.
[01:07] Valerie: So anyway, Charlie and I are back here,
[01:10] and it's going to be a little different today. So she is going to be filling the role of interviewer and host. She's going to interview me,
[01:16] and we are going to be exploring the theme of authenticity today.
[01:21] So let's dive straight into the conversation and I'm going to stop being host now. Tarno, welcome.
[01:26] Tarna: All right.
[01:27] I love this. I love. Because you and I have had such deep conversation about this topic and what it really means.
[01:35] Before we get going, I am going to read this little, little bit out of this book. It's Zen and the Art of motorcycle maintenance.
[01:45] Copyright 1970. Something Robert M. Piercing for anybody listening, not able to see.
[01:52] So I just. I just thought that this is. As a topic that has really come up. You know, it's a lot in the yoga world. It's been around for quite some time.
[02:00] And just thinking of that specifically, I just, I. I read this and I thought, oh, this is perfect.
[02:06] There are eras of human history in which the channels of thought have been too deeply cut and no change was possible,
[02:14] and nothing new ever happened.
[02:17] And best was a matter of dogma.
[02:19] But that's not the situation now.
[02:22] Now the stream of our common consciousness seems to be obliterating its own banks, losing its central direction and purpose.
[02:30] Flooding the lowlands, disconnecting and isolating the highlands. And to no particular purpose other than the wasteful fulfillment of its own internal momentum.
[02:40] Some channel deepening seems called for.
[02:44] So a big part of why I wanted to read that is that that there are so many deep areas we can go down. But being authentic and really diving into what does that mean and how does that,
[02:58] how is that relevant?
[03:00] And you know, we hear it all the time, you know, just, just show up authentically be authentic.
[03:04] So I'm going to pose this question to you, Valerie. This is your first question.
[03:09] What does authentic mean to you? What is, what is your relationship with that word?
[03:13] Yeah.
[03:14] Valerie: Okay,
[03:16] so I am gonna just speak from the heart here. Cause I didn't prepare anything for today's interview.
[03:24] For me, authenticity is the key to a fulfilled life.
[03:30] And as someone who coaches other people, who mentors other people,
[03:36] my goal ultimately for them is that they embrace their authentic selves.
[03:44] To me,
[03:44] we don't all have to go for the same thing, we don't have to want the same thing.
[03:50] And each of us are born into a very unique life, right? A very unique body,
[03:58] a very unique history,
[04:00] ancestry that if we were to truly embrace in totality rather than trying to be like everyone else,
[04:11] we would feel so much more accepted and integrated.
[04:17] And I think it would provide us also the heart space to also accept other people as they are.
[04:24] So it's not just feeling fulfilled by yourself and on your own and that being the end all be all.
[04:30] But when people are feel accepted and they feel fulfilled and they feel like they're do doing something in the world that really only they are meant to do,
[04:41] that increases compassion. And I think there is a ripple effect of that,
[04:45] that that creates conditions for harmony and peace and a lot of the things that we are missing in this world.
[04:55] Tarna: So that quote that I just read, it talked about a time in human history where the thoughts were so deep that we couldn't actually change trajectory.
[05:07] And you and I have had a lot of conversation about traditions and the way that we were brought up and you know, kind of some of the expectations and how do you know whether you're being authentic or whether you're fulfilling a role because of your own innate desire or because of somebody else's?
[05:30] Like maybe you don't have a problem with filling this desire, but how do you know it's authentically you versus the expectation that you've just accepted?
[05:41] Valerie: I can really only speak for myself because I also have friends who have gone very conventional and have chosen the exact path that society wants for them and I think are to an extent pretty happy with that life.
[05:57] Right.
[05:58] And that might be authentic to them.
[06:01] So we can't say that like,
[06:03] just because it's mainstream doesn't mean it's not authentic. However,
[06:07] for me,
[06:09] just doing things for the sake of doing it because somebody else told me to,
[06:13] feels very empty inside.
[06:16] There's a sense of like, I'm doing it because I know somebody told me that I should. That supposedly this is gonna end out good for me, right? This is gonna end up with good outcomes for me.
[06:25] Like, there's a little bit of a question in the back of my mind about is this really going to end up well for me or am I just accepting something that somebody told me was going to end up good for me?
[06:36] And usually that little doubt in my head has. Has been right.
[06:42] It didn't always end up well for me because I didn't necessarily actually understand what were the parameters of that success or that action where it would lead me like, and why would lead me there.
[06:57] Some. A concrete example of this is that I, I went to grad school to get my master's and there was, there was no I want in that action.
[07:08] There was really no desire to get a master's. It was like a couple of other things. It was, I'm really good at school,
[07:16] society says you'll get a better job,
[07:18] and this is what you should do after you get your undergrad,
[07:22] right? And like, what Another thing is like, oh, well, I'm really, you know, I'm really good at this international relations position that I was in.
[07:32] And I was like, maybe I can use that to build a future.
[07:36] But was there an actual desire behind all of that? Was like, this is what is what Valerie's meant to do?
[07:43] If there was, it was a very, very minor part of the decision making process.
[07:50] And I ended up in a program that was completely misaligned, that I didn't agree with values wise. And that actually led me down a path of depression for quite a few years.
[08:02] And so how do you know? I think you learn by doing right. You learn by making choices. And sometimes when you make choices where it doesn't feel right, where it doesn't feel quite like you had a hand in it,
[08:17] maybe that's the time to really question, is this truly what I want?
[08:22] Tarna: I like that. I love your share about going to school.
[08:29] When I got my bachelor's degree, it was the same. I got my associates and then I just got my bachelor's because that was the thing to do.
[08:36] I went through it, I did fine, but I had no intention of going into healthcare management. That's what it was in.
[08:43] I hated statistics.
[08:45] And then I, when I got my master's, I wanted, I wanted to do that. That was a calling. And it was years later, I was like, I'm going to do this.
[08:53] But I feel like one of the things that pops up in this is just a small example, but, like,
[09:00] shaving your legs.
[09:02] And I don't. I don't know where you stand, but for me,
[09:05] that was something I struggled with, is I am not going to shave my legs,
[09:09] but then am I doing it because I'm trying to be rebellious or do I really not want to shave my legs?
[09:15] Or wait. And I know this sounds so surface, so like, you know, but it, it was, it was. It's. It's. There was a deeper like, is it this rebel piece of me or is it.
[09:26] Is it me fighting societal norms because I can or do I really not want to shave my legs? And I went through that for a period.
[09:33] And just for anybody wondering, I don't shave my legs. Except for once in a while when I'm like, oh, I'd really like to have my legs shaved to go out to the hot spring.
[09:41] Then I will shave them and I shave them for myself. Oops, sorry. For myself now.
[09:45] But as I was going through that, like, you know, that's. That kind of goes into that. That rebel piece for me was like, maybe more patterning, but it also.
[09:58] Was it authentic?
[10:00] Hmm.
[10:01] Valerie: Yeah.
[10:01] Tarna: I don't have an answer there.
[10:03] Valerie: Yeah. This is a great example because it is simple, right? And because it's.
[10:08] This is getting to some of our emotional conditioning.
[10:12] Is that are we. Are we rebels because we stand for something or is it. Are we rebeling because we are reacting to something?
[10:25] Right.
[10:26] And maybe it's both.
[10:29] You know, that's something to. To look into.
[10:32] Right. That's a piece of reflection to have with everything that you do. I know for me, like,
[10:38] I.
[10:40] I do like to shave my legs, but I'm not always going to because I just don't have the time and the patience. And nor is it that too important for me to.
[10:49] For me to be seen in a certain way. But I like how it feels, right? So it's. Even though maybe I'm not,
[10:57] you know, because a lot of people will be like, oh, you're not true feminist, or you're not saying, right. There's always. People are always putting meaning on what other people do.
[11:05] But how could you even know what the meaning is for them? It. You can only really know what it is for you. Right.
[11:13] And that's. That's a. One part of authenticity is that nobody can tell you if you're being authentic except yourself.
[11:22] Tarna: Yeah.
[11:23] You're. So I wrote down authenticity and reaction because I think that that's important.
[11:29] And I want to circle back around to that concept here in a bit. But first, there was another thing that you and I talked about that we, we just kind of discussed briefly.
[11:39] There's a video and I said, oh, hey, check this out, I want to talk about this. And you said, yeah, I think it would be great to talk about the way you phrased it, the not sell.
[11:51] So,
[11:52] you know, I know there's a, there are a lot of.
[11:55] And this is, this is something that I have, I've done a lot of work on. So I use the example of shaving legs, but myself as a mom and as a, like the feminine role in my household, where I'm at now.
[12:07] And that wasn't always the case.
[12:09] And so anyway, but some of that getting to that point is that not self, like what was not me.
[12:16] And I would like to just hear you speak on that. That concept.
[12:20] Valerie: Yeah,
[12:21] I think there are a couple of schools of thought that might use this term. So I don't think it's necessarily original to me. I know human design uses the word not self, but to me, not self is the part of you that you, you have called you.
[12:36] That is actually your conditioning.
[12:39] And it's often,
[12:41] it's often a. What I would call a shadow strength.
[12:44] So it is the way that you navigate the world that you, you might even identify with.
[12:54] But that has a cost, like a heavy cost in terms of consequence.
[13:01] And this might be hard to grasp abstractly. So let me give you an example.
[13:06] A people pleaser trait is not self.
[13:11] So what does a people pleaser do? They put other people's interests in front of their own for the sake of being liked or accepted.
[13:22] Right? They, they, they really show up for others,
[13:26] make themselves super available in a way that seems a little bit like, almost like, you know, unnatural sometimes or like you're pushing it too much. Either. Like you're, you're either.
[13:38] It's. You're too available in a way that like people didn't even ask for it or like, didn't. Didn't even indicate they wanted help. But you're like, oh, but I have to be there for them.
[13:48] There's like this, this almost this, this urge, right,
[13:51] to be included because that's just, it's distinct from just being helpful or being, being available when needed and being a, like a,
[14:01] you know,
[14:02] having like a contributing role to a relationship. It's a little bit different. So people pleasers or people who Have a, who say they have a people pleaser trait, they tend to be over available,
[14:14] right?
[14:15] So because there's an imbalance in this energy where you. They are giving more,
[14:23] they're giving more than is required or expected or even that they can afford.
[14:28] Now the key piece of this is like even they can afford energetically, right? Because like if you give too much, you're going, you're not going to leave an enough for yourself and you're going to get depleted.
[14:38] This is like Ayurveda 101.
[14:41] Eventually what happens is you'll get tired and exhausted in your body.
[14:47] You'll feel very like anxious, right? But another piece of this is that you will start to feel resentment.
[14:54] So the not self creates resentment because the relational piece is out of balance.
[15:03] I gave so much, so now there's expectation I'm going to get something back because I'm not getting something back.
[15:08] I'm not getting fulfillment back.
[15:10] And so that's just like one example of not self. But it is essentially a coping mechanism that we learned very early on in life where we had to,
[15:21] we had to rely on this way of being in order to get our needs met.
[15:26] So there is a, like a historical component to this. It's not just something that we like choose consciously to do,
[15:33] but very early on in childhood a lot of these patterns are,
[15:37] this is where they're formed, right? Because the child doesn't know and the child is a little bit more helpless. And so when a child's survival is at stake,
[15:49] right, when they perceive that like, oh no, like I'm not going to,
[15:53] like maybe my parents or my caretaker are not going to give me what I need. I'm going to have to do something extra to get what I need.
[16:01] I know I went way down the rabbit hole really quickly with that one. Okay, so that's what, I'll leave it at that for now.
[16:09] Tarna: Well, no, I think that was, I think that's good. I think that's really interesting because it ties back to,
[16:14] you know, the last podcast that we did and we talked about those patterns and we talked, I specifically talked about some of my patterns and something I've been doing lately is releasing a lot of extra work that I do and because I'm trying to hone in my focus and you know,
[16:34] I have like a ton of irons in the fire and trying to just bring it down to one. And I realized with myself too that hey, that's because I found value in doing all of those things because of that child conditioning that Patterning, you know, along with using my voice to say,
[16:48] this is what I want. This is what I don't want.
[16:51] And so I think that's important in recognizing. But also.
[16:57] And. And that. That's part of what I want to mention when we go over to the reaction piece too,
[17:03] but also with the not self,
[17:06] there's a guru or a teacher, and it was like,
[17:10] who am I? And you just ask yourself over and over, who am I?
[17:13] Okay, I'm not this. Okay, I'm not that. I'm not Tarna. That's just my name. I'm not this. That's just what I'm. What I. What I am here in this life now.
[17:22] I'm not that. I'm not. And so you go through. Into this who am I? And going all the way to that little piece of you that's really kind of more just the observer.
[17:30] And so whenever we said not self, I thought, wow, that could go really deep into.
[17:37] Into. Like, what is that? But then you do have that 80, 20 that Kate's always talking about.
[17:43] You know that. That fractal piece.
[17:45] And so when you're coming back out, so just. Just kind of taking it from that, like,
[17:50] broader and then coming super deep and then just kind of playing with that a little bit.
[17:56] Like, I saw a thought pop up on your face. What would you.
[17:59] Valerie: Yeah, well, okay, because let's. Let's also explain a little bit what this, this not self is in the context of the philosophy that you're pulling from,
[18:09] Right. Which is a lot of. There's a little bit of Sankhya in there. There's a little bit of, like,
[18:13] the. The observer and the observed. Right.
[18:16] I was actually talking about this with my club members. They actually talk about this amongst themselves.
[18:22] I don't even have to bring it up. They talk about it amongst themselves, which is beautiful.
[18:26] So there's this idea that, like,
[18:29] there is a self behind who you think you are that is eternal.
[18:34] It's completely like, pull, perfect and complete.
[18:38] And is there simply to hold, basically hold the space for your existence. Now,
[18:45] there's this idea that whenever you identify with the I,
[18:48] like, I am Valerie. I am female. I am whatever. It's actually not your true whole, perfect and complete self that is.
[18:58] Is eternal and universal.
[19:02] So when you think about it that way, I'm not Valerie. I'm not.
[19:06] I'm not a woman. I'm not all that.
[19:10] It can get a little bit ungrounding. Very abstract.
[19:14] Yeah, very abstract. Because, like, wait, I am Valerie. Wait, I am a woman. Yeah. I'm in this body right now. I. I do have a life in Japan. All this stuff that, like, I currently identify with that I actually do have to deal with right now, right?
[19:29] And so there is a risk of when we go straight to the heart of the matter, which I still think is very, very important,
[19:35] especially when you are contemplating your entire existence.
[19:39] But when we bypass here,
[19:43] what's going on in the here and now, who we are in the here and now, we lose access, I think, to some really rich learning opportunities, which is, I think, why we're here in the first place.
[19:53] So looking at more of like,
[19:57] who am I not and just being a little bit less attached to who we are, I think that's the key, right? Like,
[20:04] yes, I am in this body, this female body,
[20:08] in a. In a woman's body named Valerie. I'm Chinese, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This creates a very unique set of constructs for my existence right now.
[20:18] But if it's not me,
[20:21] still, I'm in this body here for a reason,
[20:24] right? And so how do I play my role right now without too much being caught up in the drama of what I'm creating?
[20:34] So for those of you listening,
[20:37] there is like a school of thought in Vedic wisdom called Sankhya philosophy. I think that this, a lot of what we're pulling from is actually from there.
[20:45] The reason why thoughts of school, schools of thought like that exist is because when we're so steep in our suffering,
[20:54] it is really hard to detach our suffering from ourselves.
[21:00] So when we're able to see beyond this, to see, like,
[21:05] I have choice in how I experience my reality,
[21:09] then there's a lot of freedom behind that. But I think that it takes some self awareness and actually some practice and skill before we're able to navigate that and not bypass what we're experiencing in this life.
[21:22] Tarna: So using it more as a. I am upset. No, I feel upset.
[21:29] And recognizing that piece, maybe I'm kind of going back a bit too much. But I just. When I think about that, when I think about the concept of authenticity and as you mentioned, like playing, playing this role.
[21:41] Right? But they're very.
[21:43] I'm a mom. I have these kids I need to take care of. That is very real.
[21:47] And,
[21:48] you know, then you're also, you know, in this meat suit or,
[21:52] you know, I have somebody. I like that phrasing, but I also don't. So that's why I use trying it on.
[22:00] Valerie: Oh.
[22:01] Tarna: So anyway. But if it's very real, like, I am a mom.
[22:04] Valerie: I am.
[22:04] Tarna: I very much, you know, I have to do what I have to do in the society as it is today.
[22:11] But also,
[22:13] if all of this is so fleeting, so temporary,
[22:19] then where does that leave that concept of authenticity? Does it matter? Or is it something that we can just make up ourselves and say, you know what?
[22:27] I want this to be authentic to me. In which case that rebel cell is being authentic to something.
[22:35] Right?
[22:36] Yeah.
[22:36] Valerie: So, okay, so this. This is the thing, is that we have a lot more creative freedom than we ever realize,
[22:42] right? So even within our parameters, we are given certain karmas in life, certain things that we need to do,
[22:50] and a certain dharma, right? Certain roles and obligations that we are meant to fill.
[22:55] You are in a mother dharma,
[22:57] but does that mean you have to mother like everyone else?
[23:01] You have actually a lot more agency in this than you might think.
[23:06] And part of the.
[23:08] The authenticity piece is discovering what that creative freedom is and being able to stand in your convictions and your values to actually manifest that creative freedom.
[23:23] Because a lot of people will say, like,
[23:25] because everybody else parents this way, and this is what people say are right, means that I have to do this way, too.
[23:31] But then you are just creating the same outcomes and following the same rules as everyone without really thinking, well, what is the outcome that I want to create in this role?
[23:42] Right. Especially as a parent, you're creating a life for your children. You're creating a grounds for their growth.
[23:49] So what kind of ground are you going to create?
[23:51] And you, as the mother,
[23:54] have every.
[23:55] You have so much agency in that.
[23:58] Tarna: Right?
[23:58] Valerie: But it takes some bravery to break away from what you should do, to do what you want to do in this role. Does that make sense?
[24:07] Tarna: Oh, yeah. That's. That's been my journey of parenting.
[24:12] I. I had a conversation. I called my mom earlier today,
[24:16] and I was just. Just put her on. On the phone while I was making my own broth. And I had. I'd boiled my chicken, this chicken for four hours, and I was breaking it apart.
[24:26] And that's something she never.
[24:28] She'd never done.
[24:29] And,
[24:30] I mean, it was something as simple as that. And then I mentioned something along the lines. We were talking about her mom, my grandmother,
[24:38] who's still alive. And, you know, I was asking about how she was, and we kind of touched on. Touched on because my mom is not in a space where she's ready to go deep into.
[24:50] Into things like this, but touched on.
[24:53] Well,
[24:54] have you heard of the concept of generational trauma and what that looks like? Cause she was talking about a story from her childhood,
[25:00] and I think that goes into,
[25:03] when you're breaking the mold of, of what is expected.
[25:08] You know, like you have your creative,
[25:11] creative freedom in being a parent or in being a student or in being a daughter or in being whatever it is you choose to be.
[25:19] Then you have these other factors that come in. Like, and this is where, you know, when I, when I read that quote it talked about, now we're at a place where it's not so deep.
[25:26] It's like everything's going everywhere.
[25:28] So let's kind of dig in a little bit and let some of these seeds hold some water. It's kind of, I've been doing a lot of gardening, so that's my metaphor right now is instead of letting the water just go everywhere, let's water some of these seeds and kind of go into that.
[25:42] But like these concepts like generational trauma and things like that in your creative, like,
[25:47] and I,
[25:48] my personal thought is it's a, it's a choice. Is that something that you want to take on in this life and is it, again, does it goes back to, is it authentic to you?
[25:57] Does it feel like the thing to do?
[25:59] Or is it something that,
[26:01] you know, what, what, what is expected if,
[26:04] you know,
[26:05] if the world is our oyster and our creative freedom and how we embody these different roles.
[26:10] Are there any guidelines or is it a free for all?
[26:13] Valerie: Okay, so you actually mentioned something that I didn't pick up on before,
[26:18] which is like looking at it from a not self perspective,
[26:23] right? Because like a, a parent who is, who is fighting with themselves about how to parent their child means that they're, they're thinking about it,
[26:32] right?
[26:33] That they're, they're contemplating something that,
[26:37] which means that they're not reacting as much.
[26:41] But there are reactive,
[26:43] completely reactive parents with very little in terms of the ability to even contemplate choice,
[26:53] right?
[26:54] And so they are going to operate from a, something completely different, which I would argue is the shadow strength slash, not self, which when you're doing that, you don't have access to your authenticity.
[27:09] And the reason why is because that is a mode of trying to survive.
[27:14] It's not a, it's not a mode where choice is available yet,
[27:19] right? Until there's a mental switch,
[27:23] a choice, a singular choice of I am going to do it differently or I'm going to do this. There, there's like a, a decision that's made that's like,
[27:34] yeah, maybe I am angry, tired, upset,
[27:38] fatigue, exhausted,
[27:40] but that's not going to dictate how I parent. And I Think you actually touched upon this in our last episode,
[27:46] that you had that switch,
[27:48] right? You decided you were going to make conscious decisions.
[27:52] Tarna: Correct.
[27:53] Valerie: So, yeah, there. There are layers to this.
[27:56] Tarna: So then would you.
[27:59] Would you suggest that.
[28:02] And pursuing your own authenticity and your own embodiment of that, it requires being able to be in a place of choice, as in being stable in this.
[28:12] I am, Valerie. I am in Japan. I am. And you're stable there,
[28:16] so that you're able to kind of go back and take that. Look,
[28:19] I know you shared with me one of your members who had kind of gone through this journey of living in, you know, this.
[28:26] This world of working for somebody and then by kind of coming through their journey with you to be more authentic to themselves and to really embrace that creativity piece.
[28:37] And now they're making their living this way, and it's. They're feeling so much more in alignment versus the way that they needed to.
[28:44] And I think a lot of people, you know, working to pay your bills and you're in survival mode versus being able to have the. The. The freedom to say, okay,
[28:54] how can I expand?
[28:55] But looking at that from just the self piece, not just the societal piece, but the self piece,
[29:02] is that kind of where. What you're suggesting?
[29:06] Valerie: So I am saying that there are prerequisites to authenticity.
[29:10] Actually, I think Ayurveda backs this up.
[29:13] So let me paint my entire picture here.
[29:16] There's a difference between working to pay your bills because you believe that's all you can do. And all you can do in life is to survive. To survive. And as somebody who's paying their bills,
[29:28] to sustain a level of stability so that they can then build and make choices,
[29:37] there's a limit on the first one.
[29:40] The second one is limitless.
[29:43] And they might be doing the same exact thing when you look at them side by side.
[29:47] So that's one thing. Another thing is that when the reason I say there's a prerequisite to having enough, like living authentically,
[29:57] is because when you aren't settled in your foundation of who you are,
[30:04] you're basically in a perpetual mode of distress.
[30:09] This is how Ayurveda defines health and disease.
[30:13] So the word svastha that I always talk about, being settled in the self literally, is what that translates to is what is required for you to expand on your dharma and to have a foundation of operation where you can choose what is going to happen to you, where you are.
[30:33] Where you can choose what direction you're going to take your life.
[30:36] Because if you live, if you Live below the level of function where you're constantly trying to swim to survive. Your entire attention and capacity just goes towards that. Which is why I'm saying when people are saying I am, I am working just to survive,
[30:53] it's actually because they're paddling and they're just below the surface and they're trying not to drown.
[30:59] How can someone is doing that see that they have choice.
[31:03] And part of the. When I go back to not self and the people pleasing part of it, like that example, is because that person is trying not to drown by being more available.
[31:14] But what they don't realize is when they're giving away their resources more and more they're sinking slowly deeper and farther away from the surface level.
[31:23] So what needs to happen is the decision not to self sacrifice and not to live at the level of I'm just gonna survive.
[31:31] I'm going to do this job and make sure that I'm fed and clothed and sheltered and taken care of and that I'm safe because I know there's more out there for me.
[31:40] But I need to come to a place of stability where my needs are met.
[31:46] I don't feel like I have to over give anything.
[31:49] And then now I can take the next steps, you know, from a place of stability and clarity.
[31:55] Tarna: Yeah,
[31:56] yeah,
[31:57] I love that.
[31:59] And so the prerequisite for being able to be authentic,
[32:05] a lot of it sounded really close to going on a path for enlightenment because. Because what is enlightenment? You know, that go that and that can be a whole other topic.
[32:19] But it also, I think,
[32:21] you know,
[32:22] could it be said that being authentic is,
[32:25] you know, being authentic and recognizing yourself? I think that would, that's a huge first. And I say first loosely because there are a lot of steps to get there.
[32:34] But first step to enlightenment, which you know, I view as being able to authentically see yourself and then being able to look at somebody else and see their inner self and you know, accepting and understanding that connection that you share which goes into the whole deeper,
[32:51] you know what I'm not.
[32:53] But on that,
[32:55] yeah, on the more, more deep, more more abstract piece.
[33:00] Valerie: Okay, I'm going to try to explain this, but I think this is,
[33:05] this will get esoteric.
[33:07] So the enlightenment piece is to me really interesting because when people think of enlightenment and they, they're having spiritual crises,
[33:18] all they want to do is get to the, the end where I've made it.
[33:22] Tarna: I'm enlightened.
[33:23] Valerie: But I think in reality if you were to really be, if you are able to actually access authentic self it's actually a,
[33:32] it's a spiral, like hate often says. And it's a cycle, right? And the way that I describe it is that you go up and you reach this, this level of self awareness where, where you have, and this is Kate's language too, you reach a new floor,
[33:48] right? You have, you now have expanded reality with more opportunities that you hadn't seen for yourself.
[33:55] And then like a new set of circumstances, challenges and whatnot that continue to challenge you. And your shadow self, your shadow self will still be there challenging you. But the challenge, the sets of challenges become more,
[34:09] even the challenges become more aligned, right? Because when you see, when you finally start to realize that your challenges are actually opportunities for you to learn,
[34:17] then they're not so much like obstacles anymore in terms of, like, they're not in your way just for the sake of being your way to knock you down.
[34:24] They're in your way because you're meant to overcome and learn something from them so that you can continue to grow towards your more integrated self, which is the enlightenment piece.
[34:35] And so you might get a glimpse of this enlightenment in a, in a smaller sense at the first level of it, if you allow yourself to. But when people have,
[34:46] when they're in such crises and they see that there is enlightenment somewhere over here,
[34:50] all they want to do is bypass all of this stuff, which is really the beauty of being alive,
[34:56] and just get to the end.
[34:59] This, this, like I am going to be liberated from this, this life and this, this worldly existence and like, I'll be at bliss and all of that.
[35:08] I, I,
[35:10] I think it's something to be wary of when people want to just get to the end piece and then not do the loops and the spirals and the, the depth work and the shadow work.
[35:24] So yes, it is.
[35:26] And,
[35:29] and maybe there's more to it than that.
[35:32] Tarna: Yeah,
[35:34] yeah. And, and I agree with what you're saying about being wary about bypassing all of that.
[35:39] So growing up, having the, the Buddhist teachings that I've had,
[35:42] enlightenment is about more than, it's not just like this end destination where it's like, okay, now I'm no longer part of the world, everything is blissful.
[35:51] You know,
[35:52] it's not that,
[35:54] that actually enlightenment and being a Buddha, being a Bodhisattva is, is more about being in those circles and being like, ah, oh, another lesson. Okay, I see this. No, I don't really want to do it, but let's do it.
[36:08] You know, which I think you know that sometimes I'm excited whenever I do have that reaction. I'm like, oh, good job, me. And then other times, you know, for myself, I'm like,
[36:19] no, I'm not ready for that. I don't want to do that yet. You know, and.
[36:22] And that could be argued to be like, not so, you know, in, in nature and daishonin. It's kind of you. You can kind of go in and out of it in that sense of, you know, as.
[36:32] But it's, it's. It's that understanding of going through those circles and, and not trying to bypass them anymore.
[36:39] So. So, yeah, I think that that can be a whole other topic of conversation.
[36:45] Valerie: Well, I could ground this in a real example, right, Because I think the.
[36:50] The pit,
[36:51] the pitfall of wanting to get straight to enlightenment is actually a sign that healing needs to take place.
[36:59] So,
[37:00] you know, and a lot of us who do have a spiritual crisis will dedicate years to a spiritual practice.
[37:09] That's kind of the way that it works is like we have a crisis of meaning and then we go and meditate in the desert and then we go to Ayurveda school,
[37:20] right?
[37:20] And like, there's this period of time where we're very dedicated to this philosophy,
[37:26] right. We're rarely dedicated to this path. And I went to yoga every day and all this stuff. I did all the stuff, right. I quote, unquote, right.
[37:34] And I thought I was going to, like,
[37:36] that was my path now. And a. And you see a lot of people go through the same process,
[37:42] but perhaps this is a false.
[37:45] It's not false per se as it is. Like,
[37:47] this is not the end. All be. All is for us all to become monks just because we have had this crisis.
[37:54] Like, you know, what would real healing be is that we were able to reenter the. The world and be back in society with our wounds somewhat healed and us being able to handle what we couldn't handle before.
[38:07] Tarna: I love that, the way you just, just phrased that. I think that's.
[38:11] Yeah,
[38:12] I do think that there is a certain piece of that and,
[38:15] and kind of tying back to the authenticity piece too, but. And a certain piece of that, like with going to yoga practice and doing all the things you're supposed to do with me, with, with Nishirendashon's Buddhism as an adult.
[38:28] I got a. Gohonzon is like a. It's a scroll that you. You chant to.
[38:32] And I remember one of our senior people were like, oh, you're supposed to have it on the east side. And then you need to do this. And then you need to do this.
[38:38] And I'm like,
[38:40] no.
[38:42] And I remember like, I had this conversation with my stepdad and he gave me this, this very thin. It was like, it was a book, but it would, it could barely call it more than a pamphlet that Nature and Daishonin had written.
[38:54] And it was talking about not so much the religious part of the spirituality, making it accessible to people without all the religious parameters and really being true to yourself and knowing what you need to do in that sense.
[39:08] And some people do need that, that routine, that repetition, and they need these austerities to help them kind of more hone in and other people, not so much. And I think that's true with any religion.
[39:20] And I know, you know, even organizations like, you know,
[39:24] in Ayurveda, there's, there's some organizations that it's like more of an organization and it's a lot of really great value and a lot of really great,
[39:33] like, hey, there's this.
[39:35] However,
[39:37] I mean, even just looking at, you know, having a client one on one and saying, okay, well, it depends, it depends on the person. It depends on, on what, you know, as far as what they need to eat, what they need to do, how much they, what type of exercise they should do,
[39:52] and they could appear one way and really, as you dig in, it's something totally different.
[39:57] And so it goes back to, I think authentic is really what you said in the very beginning about unique to your set of who you are.
[40:08] And that's, I think that that goes for all of those things.
[40:12] Yeah,
[40:13] yeah.
[40:15] Valerie: So in order to be authentic,
[40:18] right.
[40:18] We need to be able to face the not self because the not self is, will always be there too.
[40:27] Right. That's the shadow self.
[40:30] So I have a deep seated childhood wound of not being included from things.
[40:41] And it, it goes with.
[40:45] I remember when I was in like first grade or kindergarten and I had to be taken out of class because I needed to go to esl, which is English as a Second Language.
[40:54] And I was missing playtime.
[40:57] Right.
[40:58] And I was not cool with that.
[41:02] And just,
[41:04] you know, it's so funny what we latch onto as children,
[41:08] but it's like when we don't get to be part of the group as, as a human who, you know, humans are so tribal. They need to belong because acceptance is a huge part of our survival.
[41:21] Right.
[41:21] We are, we trade with others. We can't,
[41:24] like, you know, the, the,
[41:26] the, the fruit goer can't also be the butcher.
[41:31] So, you know, they're going to trade their stuff and they create this symbiotic relationship.
[41:37] And so a village is people who trade and, and coexist in this harmonious manner.
[41:43] So when you're taken out of the village because you're different,
[41:49] this can feel very threatening,
[41:52] right? This is. And I'm just like,
[41:54] just zooming out to look at human nature to see what,
[41:57] why,
[41:58] for me, stuff like that that seems so insignificant is carried forward for the rest of my life.
[42:05] And I. So I've been in this, this job right now, right, in Japan. So I'm a foreigner in Japan. I put myself in here where I am going to most likely feel left out.
[42:19] So this is very funny, right?
[42:21] Because cultural, culturally, I'm already different.
[42:24] I don't even speak the same language in the way that they do.
[42:28] And I'm in a job where I am required to speak that language.
[42:32] And even though my reality is that my co workers are so kind and that they love me and all of that, I still have instances where I'm triggered because I was left out of, of a conversation or a conversation was supposed to happen that I didn't.
[42:51] Didn't get. Or like, I'm telling you right now, this happened this week where it's like, oh, everyone's going to be interviewed to see, like, what, you know, to establish their goals in this company and all of that.
[43:01] And I haven't got my interview yet.
[43:03] And I was like crying to my husband because what if they don't interview me? Like, what's going to happen, right? And job that's not supposed to be a huge, huge part of my life that I'm just doing on the side because I want to, like, experience it, I want to learn.
[43:16] But this, this wound in me has me like crying over this thing. And like, it's not because they have outrightly rejected me either. I literally got the interview the next day, by the way.
[43:29] So,
[43:30] and, and like, so that day where I was feeling really down about myself after work, I was like, okay, I am going to sit at the. Because this,
[43:38] this place that I work at is, is actually really cool and it's designed for people to commune. It's actually designed for you get some food, you sit down and like, you could have whatever, a coffee or, and whatnot.
[43:51] And you could do your work there. It could be on your laptop. Doesn't matter. Like, they don't kick you out of your seat, which is awesome.
[43:58] So I sat down.
[43:59] This is right after work because I was going to wait for my husband to finish up his stuff.
[44:04] And like, the CEO is just Standing there with some of his guests or his friends and he, and he's like raving about how me and my husband had like, came all the way from America with our cats and he's just like, so happy to talk about us, right?
[44:16] So there was that and I was like, oh, thank you so much. Like, I'm really happy to meet you guys. And,
[44:20] and then like I turn around and then like out of the, you know, just to the side, it's like there's somebody's like, oh, it's kind of.
[44:26] Which means like, thank you for your hard work.
[44:28] And it's my coworker that I even haven't even had that much chance to interact with. But we know that we're. We're kind of in the same team and. And he was just sitting there having a coffee and chilling and.
[44:40] And we just got to talking and I sat down and then all of a sudden another coworker sat down and we just started having like a little bit of a gathering there.
[44:49] And then another person came and like, oh, I, I am part of this. Don't nobody sees me as, as separate. They actually like, want to be around me and like enjoy.
[44:58] And we all enjoy each other's company,
[45:01] right? Which is a completely different reality than the one I was painting in my head as my shadow self, as my right as my not self.
[45:10] So I want to, I want to really paint this picture here that you're not self is a saboteur.
[45:17] And yes, it was there, it was implanted within you because you felt threatened in the past of not being included or whatever it is, not getting your needs met. And then you have created this shell around yourself where you are super defensive,
[45:32] right? Like you feeling you need to be hyper vigilant. Maybe that's why you show up more. Maybe that's why you make yourself available more.
[45:38] But on the other flip side of that, you are. You're emotionally tormented because your reality you perceive as like, you're not enough.
[45:47] Tarna: So,
[45:49] So I love, I love that you're going more into the not self.
[45:53] And you know, we, we've discussed like that was. That's one of my patterns. And I recognized for myself, I'm like, okay,
[46:01] that value. You know, I, at the beginning of, of this, of this talk, I, I was talking about dropping things off because I'm like, oh,
[46:09] I realized that I feel like if I'm doing all these other things that it makes me more valuable, but it's really taking me away from my, my authentic purpose and choice.
[46:19] And then that Brings me into your,
[46:23] your experience.
[46:25] What if it went a different way? You know? Kate recently posted. Something about Darvo. Did you get a chance to look at that?
[46:32] Have you heard and do you. Are you familiar with Darvo?
[46:35] Valerie: No.
[46:35] Tarna: Please tell me.
[46:36] Okay, so she posted and I read it. I thought it's really interesting. And she talks about us doing it to ourselves also, but more so when the society or the group of people or the family unit that you're in and you're going to your new floor and you're making the choice,
[46:53] right.
[46:53] And you're holding all these responsibilities and you know, I feel, I feel like I do see some of that in mine, but I feel very lucky in that I'm in a place now where it's not as prominent as maybe it would have been before.
[47:09] But Darvo is defensiveness.
[47:12] What was it? Defensiveness, aggression,
[47:14] reverse victim.
[47:16] And I don't remember what the R, what the O is, but D, A, R, V, O,
[47:21] it can look like from. If you're self sabotaging, you say,
[47:25] wow, you know, you're always doing stuff for everybody else.
[47:28] Oh, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. And then it's like you're just, you're just, you know, and I can't think of it,
[47:35] I can't think of an example, but you know, an attack of some sort and then,
[47:40] and now you're just not appreciating me,
[47:42] you know, and kind of having that as a defense or, or if it's societal, whenever you're like, okay, I'm no longer going to be available for,
[47:53] you know, she, I think she gave the example of I'm not going to,
[47:57] I'm not going to be around to monitor to, to help manage you when you're drinking anymore. And the person says,
[48:03] well, I don't drink that much and you know, I wouldn't have to drink if you didn't, blah, blah, blah, or, you know, so it, it goes into more abuse situations.
[48:10] Right.
[48:12] But it's not always that extreme.
[48:14] But it's the concept of as you're going to your new floor or embracing more of your authenticity and what's needed and those reactions, whether it's from mothers or sisters or whatever, other family members,
[48:27] and as they're like used to you being this space.
[48:31] And I love that Kate gave the analogy of a rubber band because a rubber band snaps back hard,
[48:37] but also as you pull on a rubber band more and more, it kind of gets a little weaker. Right.
[48:42] But she doesn't, she doesn't go into that. She just says it's like a rubber band and then she moves on. On the, on her blog that she did. But I loved that and I just wanted to kind of touch on that with, with, you know, some of that being the not self being that saboteur,
[48:57] but then also your environment sometimes sabotaging that. What, I guess what would be your authentic pursuit? Right.
[49:06] And I mean, just what are your, what are your thoughts on, on,
[49:10] on that. That's, that's kind of a big thing,
[49:14] Valerie: the environment being a saboteur.
[49:19] Okay. So I will, I will.
[49:20] I'm going to flip that around a little bit because no matter how much you see that your environment is trying to sabotage you,
[49:31] and some people might not agree with me on this, but like, hold on to this thought is that you are the one that chooses how to respond to that sabotage.
[49:45] Right.
[49:46] No matter what it is.
[49:48] And we can bring it to very, very extreme situations like abuse where it gets a little bit gray because it's not their fault that they're being abused.
[50:00] Right.
[50:02] But here's the thing,
[50:03] is that a lot of people stay in abusive situations because they don't see that they have choice to get out of it.
[50:10] So.
[50:12] But what if it's life threatening?
[50:14] Then do you have a choice?
[50:18] There's really two.
[50:20] Right. If it's like immediately life threatening,
[50:23] I
[50:24] Tarna: think some people don't recognize because they're used to a certain degree.
[50:30] But even with that, that, that Darvo piece is talking a lot about,
[50:36] you do have that, that choice to, to, to leave, to not. Or to hold your boundary regardless of whatever consequences somebody else has. And she goes into like, it can look like the silent treatment and it can look like being left out of events and things like that and,
[50:53] and holding that boundary until,
[50:56] and like intentionally destabilizing to go to your authentic self. So, yeah, I agree that you, you know,
[51:02] to an extent, yeah, I think there is choice.
[51:04] You know, we talked on the last, on our last podcast about childhood abuse.
[51:11] I do think that that's more of, of a, of a different story.
[51:15] But I mean, when you're talking about an adult,
[51:18] yes, choice, but also sometimes people don't realize that they have a choice.
[51:23] And I feel like that goes to what you were saying about having that stability in self but also having stability in your environment before you can pursue that authenticity.
[51:35] But I think it could be a step toward that.
[51:38] Valerie: Yeah,
[51:39] well, here's the thing. Let's, let's let it, let us touch upon the things that are the most gray, which let's look at the child then,
[51:47] right?
[51:48] The child is in the moment making choices.
[51:52] They're just. And they're making the ones that are going to matter for the rest of their life.
[51:57] So it might not seem like choice,
[51:59] but it is because this is, this is where the creation of the shadow self comes from.
[52:05] This is the creation of where the not self comes from is that a choice is made in the moment and they are, they are actually doing what they need to do to survive.
[52:16] So the choice is that they are making the choice. They are doing what is exactly required of them to do in the moment to survive.
[52:26] Otherwise they wouldn't be here today as an adult.
[52:29] You default on that choice instead of refreshing the situation. The, the, the operating system to be like, this is a new thing.
[52:38] This is a new situation. Now what do I need to do in this moment?
[52:42] Because yeah, for some reason we imprint,
[52:46] right? There's a default way of being that we learn to be from those early instances because it works until it doesn't work.
[52:58] So I think the child always knows what to do.
[53:03] Yeah,
[53:04] that's a tricky one.
[53:06] But if we look at it that way,
[53:09] then we can see that originally we did make the choice.
[53:12] Yeah, we made the choice to live.
[53:14] Really?
[53:14] Tarna: Yeah. So the, the child made the choice to, to live, to survive.
[53:18] But then,
[53:20] I mean, even looking at.
[53:22] So like for myself, I've gone through a lot of growth and I do intentionally look at those patterns that I. From those choices that I made. Right.
[53:30] And.
[53:31] But I do know a lot of women who don't, who don't, who, who don't see that they have choice,
[53:37] much less recognize the patterns because they're not in a place to start to explore.
[53:43] So I think that I'm,
[53:44] I'm.
[53:45] I'm curious more, I think right now about the women who are in the situations where they are trying to explore.
[53:54] And maybe they're at the start of, you know, like, like at the start of where I was with my journey, I had to upset and I had to move,
[54:04] actually physically move myself out of the situations so I could grow to my new floor.
[54:11] And. But I don't think every, every Darvo sort of situation is as extreme. Right.
[54:16] So I mean,
[54:18] so say it's, you know, for me, like I, like I said, I'm. I'm really grateful that I am in the relationship that I am in, that I have the family I have now.
[54:26] But I know a lot of women are not in that place.
[54:29] And so. But maybe they have a good husband and they're Happy. But every time they try to uplevel, they're breaking the expectations of maybe just their family unit. And so it throws things.
[54:41] And then they. Again, they have that choice, right,
[54:44] to pursue their authenticity.
[54:47] But then what about where does, I guess, where does cost come in?
[54:51] Where does.
[54:52] You know, where does. Because I think every, Every choice is, you know, when you say yes, you're saying no to something else. Right?
[54:58] Whether that's in business, whether that's in where we spend our time, but also how important is authenticity?
[55:05] Yeah.
[55:05] Valerie: To what? To happiness, To. To life.
[55:13] Tarna: Yeah. Right.
[55:13] Valerie: Okay.
[55:14] Tarna: So to happiness. To life, to our dharmas, to our children, our generational curses.
[55:24] So my answer is going to be really simple. My. My answer is just.
[55:28] It's vital because it has been the thing that has brought me the most,
[55:34] you know, the most growth.
[55:36] Not always joy in the moment, but overall joy. And I see my children and the people around me thrive because of it.
[55:42] That's my experience.
[55:44] And I can only speak from my lived experience,
[55:46] but just as a general for, like I said, because it's a. It's. It can be a very heavy thing for. For people to try to embrace.
[55:56] Valerie: So here's the thing is I don't know if it's important for every single human soul to find their authentic voice. And the reason why I say this,
[56:06] and it's not because I don't want everyone to have their authentic voice. I actually do want everyone to have their authentic voice. But what I want is different from what I think is necessary to have a.
[56:19] A good life.
[56:22] I had immense pain that I needed to overcome. You had immense pain that you needed to overcome.
[56:29] But if you have been living in a palace your entire life and nothing bad has ever happened to you,
[56:36] and you feel safe and you're flourishing and you just do, you know, you're just. Just painting pictures all day and like,
[56:44] I don't know, frolicking with your birds.
[56:47] Can I tell you that you need to find your authentic self? I don't know if I can.
[56:52] Right.
[56:56] That's something that I think each soul has to find their way to. And has to, is a strong way of putting it.
[57:05] But like,
[57:06] if you think about the story of Siddhartha, like Buddha,
[57:11] he had a great life doing exactly that. Like, just chilling in his palace and it, like with his. His family protecting him from reality and the pain of death and whatnot.
[57:25] It wasn't until he discovered it for himself that it became a problem. Right?
[57:29] But once it was a problem, you can't go back.
[57:32] You can't unsee what you've already seen.
[57:36] So yeah,
[57:40] it only is something to, to dis, it's only something to discover when,
[57:46] I don't know, when there's, when you realize you've been missing it in the first place.
[57:51] Maybe.
[57:52] Tarna: I wonder,
[57:54] I wonder if it.
[57:55] And so anytime I think of the story of, of Siddhartha, I also think of the story of Jesus and you know,
[58:04] being born, you know, Jesus being born in the manger and,
[58:08] and the conditions being kind of less than ideal and coming and being like, I'm this Messiah and everybody's like, oh, you're nuts.
[58:17] And,
[58:18] and Siddhartha kind of went through something similar.
[58:21] But you know, like that,
[58:22] oh, I'm enlightened, I've got it, I understand.
[58:25] And for him it was sitting and seeing all the suffering and he's like, I need a timeout, like, I gotta figure this out, right?
[58:33] And in Buddhism there's the idea of reincarnation. I struggled with that for a very long time because I'm like,
[58:44] I don't. And then in some, some religions over here in the west that are Christ based,
[58:50] there's a belief that the dead are going to rise up like in their bodies. So for those that are cremated, it's like this, this horrible thing because how are they going to rise up?
[58:59] And they're going to rise up whenever the end of days comes, right? So you have these,
[59:04] these what happens when you die sort of ideas of what the body.
[59:09] And the thing that stuck with me is that there is something because of physics like matter doesn't just go away, it just changes form.
[59:20] So there's that piece, but then that little,
[59:23] whatever the real self is and kind of it, the, the,
[59:28] the way reincarnation was finally made sense to me was that, that, that self. It's not your memories,
[59:36] it's your experience, it's your lessons from those memories. Like it's the essence of right?
[59:41] And that's what actually ends up being reincarnated.
[59:45] And so understanding that piece and understanding, you know, that we all have these lessons and as we talked about the spiral that we're on, as we're going through learning our authentic self and those being our lessons,
[59:57] I would also,
[59:58] even with my,
[59:59] my childhood,
[01:00:01] but I would also say even somebody who's not in a place of being authentic, authentic and choosing is because they have to get to the point where they realize that they can choose.
[01:00:13] And so I, I, I don't know, I would think that it's still a part whether they get to that in this life or not, I think it's still a part of their,
[01:00:22] their lessons and their journey,
[01:00:24] if that makes sense. And that's just my, my,
[01:00:27] my idea that I have right now. I don't want to say belief because yeah,
[01:00:31] it's subject to change, but that's just my,
[01:00:33] my ruminations.
[01:00:35] Valerie: Well, if we were to look at actual, like, different theories of this, right?
[01:00:41] Like there are arguments that if you do live a life where it's, everything's good and you're just, you're just cruising in this one,
[01:00:49] it's just part of the journey and it goes on. And it goes on right in these reincarnation cycles. And you're spiritual development will eventually unfold.
[01:01:01] So. But we don't know what part of, like it's so hard to pinpoint that, right? Like, are you in the beginning? Are you in the end? Like,
[01:01:09] um,
[01:01:10] but I think what is helpful to think about is that like, if you were to think about reincarnation and then just like the idea that like, everything does have energetics,
[01:01:20] all of our atoms are vibrating and circulating in a certain way to create us.
[01:01:27] This, these are essentially energetic imprints. Like,
[01:01:31] if we were to really think about it, like all. Most of this is empty space,
[01:01:35] right? And it's just, it's coagulating and, and, and like coming together in a way that creates me.
[01:01:41] And then someday,
[01:01:42] like, it's not going to be me, but right, what was me is going to go somewhere energetically because whatever atoms were vibrating in me now doesn't mean that, again, like you said, doesn't mean that they just cease to exist,
[01:01:56] but they're going to vibrate in different directions now and like,
[01:02:01] find different ways to,
[01:02:04] to re.
[01:02:06] To, to manifest themselves into existence in a different way.
[01:02:10] So,
[01:02:11] you know, whether or not you think it's going to be in the form of a different person,
[01:02:15] or if you just think that it's just going to be a rock somewhere still.
[01:02:20] Like, I think our, our existence is much wider than we are able to perceive,
[01:02:25] right? And the impact of who we are is much wider and much more integrated than we are able to really perceive.
[01:02:31] So again, when it comes to like, authentic self. And so each of these reincarnations or incarnations or iterations, like our lifetimes are opportunity to experience life in a, in a way and.
[01:02:47] Tarna: Right.
[01:02:47] Valerie: And so for us to find that voice as part of the journey is a super great opportunity.
[01:02:56] So if people aren't given the opportunity because they're living the great life and everything is easy,
[01:03:03] it's not necessarily a problem,
[01:03:05] but they don't. Again, they don't have the opportunity for that right now.
[01:03:11] And maybe it's not meant for them right now,
[01:03:14] so.
[01:03:15] Tarna: Right. I love that.
[01:03:16] Yeah.
[01:03:17] Okay. I'm gonna check and see if I have any other questions that I wrote down really quick.
[01:03:23] Let's see. I feel like I had.
[01:03:27] Well, we were talking about identity crisis and where that falls in authentic. And I think we've pretty well covered.
[01:03:34] Could cover that.
[01:03:36] Yeah. Oh, but I did want to touch on. So I did have one. One kind of last.
[01:03:42] Rounding it off.
[01:03:43] So second to last question,
[01:03:45] but going back to where we talked about one of your members who has found their voice,
[01:03:51] you also mentioned when you were telling me I say found their voice, like, found their authenticity, found how they want to live this dharma out,
[01:03:58] you mentioned briefly something along the lines of being able to do that because of your own journey and finding your voice.
[01:04:07] And you've been on quite the journey with your club of.
[01:04:10] Okay, I'm gonna do it this way. Really. This is not authentic. This is not me. This is not the life I want. You know, like you said, going to school and.
[01:04:17] And doing that. But you also kind of had the same thing with.
[01:04:20] With your club at the beginning to where it is now.
[01:04:24] And I think you made mention of that kind of really impacting.
[01:04:28] Do you think that impacted your ability to guide?
[01:04:31] And I'm just going to use that particular member.
[01:04:33] But members in general, I guess, to. To being more authentic because you have been on that journey so intensely yourself.
[01:04:41] Valerie: I think it's. It's the required that I have been on the journey. Right.
[01:04:46] I do want to mention that, you know, someone who has. Has it all easy and isn't looking for authentic self. Maybe they already have it. So I'll just leave that there for you as well.
[01:04:58] Because, like, it's when there's nothing to fight and there's nothing to fix and there's nothing wrong internally, like, then what's. You know,
[01:05:05] that. That. That is an opportunity in itself to
[01:05:08] Tarna: just be who you are. So. Okay. So that. That aside, that was a good. I love that. That's something to chew on for a bit. Yeah.
[01:05:18] Valerie: But then going back to this question of, like, you know, is it because I've been through it as well that I'm able to guide? Yes, yes.
[01:05:27] Tarna: So.
[01:05:27] Valerie: And that I am in constant pursuit of discovering who I am.
[01:05:33] I consider this to be, like my life.
[01:05:37] Like, is to be in discovery of who I am as opposed to a declaration of who I am.
[01:05:43] I'm not here to tell everybody who Valerie is. I'm here to discover who Valerie is.
[01:05:48] Right.
[01:05:49] And by doing that, then I. I am paving. Paving the path for other people to be more curious about who they are.
[01:05:56] That's simply what I do.
[01:05:58] That way. It's not there. It's not really about an end goal. It's about the process. It's about being alive.
[01:06:05] And being present with the process is so much more joyful than trying to get to the end goal.
[01:06:12] So,
[01:06:14] yeah, I hope I answered that question in a way that, like, answered the question,
[01:06:19] but that's really how I see me as a guide, as mentor.
[01:06:25] Tarna: Yeah, you. You answered that. And I. I love that.
[01:06:28] It's not so much about. And I use this with.
[01:06:32] With orgasms and sex and things like that, too. It's more about the journey than the end goal is great, don't get me wrong. But it's the journey.
[01:06:41] And so that was like when. When my husband.
[01:06:45] I'm like, it's the journey. It's the journey. So, because we talk about, you know, when you get old and you're growing old together and sometimes things,
[01:06:52] it's. It's okay. It's about the journey.
[01:06:54] And. Yeah, so my face got a little red there, but that was my authentic self talking about. Yes, I prioritize the journey.
[01:07:04] Okay, so I do have a final quote that I want to read, but before I read that,
[01:07:10] what.
[01:07:11] What last words do you have for your listeners, your people? I mean,
[01:07:16] that, that. That.
[01:07:18] Anybody that's tuned into this conversation on anything that we've talked about authenticity, but also anything else that we've talked about.
[01:07:28] Valerie: Yes. So my final thought for anybody who's listening is that if you even have an inkling that you want to connect more authentically with yourself, that is a sign that you're ready for that.
[01:07:40] Because you wouldn't be listening to this if you didn't think that something needed to be uncovered.
[01:07:47] If you are so 100% happy with your life and all of that and you genuinely love it, like, there's nothing wrong with that. I think that that is incredible for people.
[01:07:58] But just because you are wondering and you are feeling this pull to know more about yourself doesn't make it wrong.
[01:08:05] It means that you are leaning into your human experience in a way that is courageous and brave, and that will make your life so much more vibrant if you lean into it.
[01:08:15] That is my $0.02 for this episode, and I want to hear yours as well. Tarna.
[01:08:22] Tarna: Hmm?
[01:08:23] I really. I agree with the idea when you Said, if anybody has an inkling. I remember I used the example of yoga teacher training at the beginning of this episode and I, I did, I had that thought of what does that mean?
[01:08:38] What is authentic?
[01:08:40] What you know, you're learning something and you're learning to mimic somebody else's training, somebody else's teaching,
[01:08:48] but you do find your authentic voice. You do find what's true for you and find your way. And one of the things my teacher said to me that I absolutely love is there's a zillion yoga teachers out there and I'm using yoga as an example, but this is true for whatever is in your heart or voice to get out and to be in the world.
[01:09:10] There might be a zillion out there,
[01:09:12] but there's somebody out there that needs to hear what you have to say in the way that you say it. What that needs to see what you have to present in the way that you present it.
[01:09:24] So,
[01:09:24] yeah, it's important to do it your way.
[01:09:27] Okay. My quote, and this is at the beginning of that same book that I started in the beginning.
[01:09:32] And I don't know who the quote is from. It doesn't say.
[01:09:35] It's from a story of some sort. I don't know who Phaedrus is,
[01:09:39] but I just thought it was good. It says,
[01:09:41] and what is good,
[01:09:42] Phaedrus and what is not good?
[01:09:45] Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
[01:09:51] So,
[01:09:52] yeah.
[01:09:53] Valerie: Yay. All right. Thank you, Turner, for being host today and for bringing us this wonderful interview.
[01:10:00] Tarna: Yeah,
[01:10:01] yeah. Thank you so much for having me. And it was,
[01:10:04] it was a pleasure just getting to kind of pick your brain and, and go deeper into this.
[01:10:09] Valerie: And I would like to invite you to talk about what you do and to, you know, who are you looking to work with? Because if anyone wants to work with either of us on all of this, I want them to be able to reach out.
[01:10:21] Tarna: Primarily, I help overwhelmed women who are in that people pleaser category or who are just over,
[01:10:29] over giving, over functioning, you know, just high capacity, they can take on the world.
[01:10:35] I help women with really getting to a more balanced lifestyle, energy metabolism, weight, those things. But also as evidenced by my conversations with you, I, I prioritize deep conversations and more that own strategic self governance journey.
[01:10:59] So if somebody would like to get a hold of me, it is Lotus Honey Health.
[01:11:03] I will have a link in the description. Yeah. So all of that will be there.
[01:11:10] Awesome.
[01:11:11] Valerie: Yay. And if, if you guys enjoyed this conversation today and you want to hear more from us, if you want us to dig deeper into a certain topic. Please like the video, Please like the episode, leave us a comment,
[01:11:22] send us questions so that we can continue this conversation and bring a little more to your world.
[01:11:28] All right, thanks everyone. We'll see you next time.
[01:11:34] Thank you for tuning in to from the Ashes. If what we talked about today resonates, if it feels on point with something you've been ruminating on by yourself,
[01:11:42] that's exactly why I'm here.
[01:11:44] From the Ashes exists for people who are tired of pretending life is fine and are ready to explore what it takes to truly embrace the road to who they really are.
[01:11:52] Every conversation is an honest, unfiltered account of someone's real life and the path they're walking toward. A life they actually align with.
[01:12:01] If you want to explore this further for yourself,
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