[00:00] Valerie: Rise, renew, reconnect.
[00:02] Welcome to from the Ashes, a podcast where bold conversations empower healing and authentic, vibrant living.
[00:08] Today, I'm joined by my mentor, Kate Stillman. She's a pioneer in ancient meets modern health and the founder and CEO of Club Thrive Global and Women's Pro Academy. She built her first company, yogahealer.com by sharing the wisdom of Ayurveda and yoga with a global audience.
[00:21] And she's become known for helping people resolve chronic health issues, ignite ambition, and build collaborative communities around thriving.
[00:28] And today, I've called her onto the show to talk about the cross section of two topics I've been really excited to dig into ever since I started working with Kate, psychedelic therapy and Ayurveda.
[00:49] All right, everyone, welcome back to from the Ashes podcast.
[00:53] Welcoming back Kate Stillman, today my mentor and super awesome teacher.
[01:00] She is an expert on so many things. But today we're going to talk about psychedelics, which I'm really, really excited about. So let me establish some groundwork on this before we dive in because when we hear about psychedelics and Ayurveda, there's probably a lot of conflicting information out there,
[01:18] a lot of beliefs that we are going to try to debunk today.
[01:21] But also, you know, just the use of psychedelics and drugs in general is, I think, emerging as something that's more accepted but over. You know, I grew up in the era of all drugs are bad, don't do drugs,
[01:32] et cetera. And so for me to even be talking about this is, you know, it.
[01:37] It's not completely surprising, but for some it might be.
[01:41] And I first came to be interested in psychedelics, actually listening to Tim Ferriss podcast because he invited a bunch of guests talking about how it might have effects in overcoming autistic symptoms and like rewiring the brain.
[01:57] And then, you know, talking about anxiety and depression and how it really helps with that.
[02:02] There's just so much emerging research on it.
[02:04] And then people have started to share more openly their experiences with psychedelics. And, you know, so far, almost everything that I've heard, especially within the therapeutic context, has been really positive.
[02:15] And then obviously, Kate, you write about the role of psychedelics in youn book Uninflamed and you touch upon your personal experience in Witch's Cancer Journal.
[02:24] So I think we have a lot to talk about today.
[02:31] But welcome to the show, Kate,
[02:33] again.
[02:34] Cate: And yeah, thanks, Mallory. Great to be back. You ready to dive in? Yeah, I love, I love the taboo.
[02:41] Valerie: I love taboo. I. I love being able to dig into taboo. And,
[02:46] and hopefully change some people's minds about what's possible.
[02:49] So let's dive in.
[02:53] Well, why don't we start with you and your story. How did you first get exposed to psychedelics?
[02:59] Cate: Oh,
[03:00] well, I mean, it's interesting. Like it's the,
[03:04] if we look at the category so we can talk about psychedelics,
[03:07] talk about entheogens, which is another category. So there's these like broad categories. So.
[03:13] And theos means in, in.
[03:15] In God. So theo is God. So like these.
[03:21] Oh, like the ogen. So entheogen, it's the, it's like this activator. Just like there's adaptogens,
[03:29] right? There's entheogens, which, it's a, it's a plant based substance that causes this in God,
[03:35] in godlike. So in the, in the form of the divine is what entheogens do is they awaken us to.
[03:42] That we are divine. Which just that in any kind of like fundamentalist religion is like, no, you're not,
[03:50] you're a sinner,
[03:52] you're not.
[03:53] Right? So like there's a lot of controversy in just even the categorization of these plants that wake us up to a different reality. And so for me, I, I would say high school,
[04:06] college.
[04:08] Well, yeah, since then, yeah, since my late teens I've had a, I would say a fairly steady practice of using entheogens.
[04:17] I'd say mostly for I think spiritual experiences, but also just like to awake to reality. So there's,
[04:27] you know, it's like, what's reality? I love, I love the book Liminal Thinking by Dave Gray. And just in terms of like our reality, like what we know is reality, like reality first of all is unknowable.
[04:38] So then we just have this limited amount of experience which is where we've pointed our attention. And based on that we have theories and judgments and beliefs. And according to all that, then we see the world as the obvious.
[04:49] And what the entheogens or the psychedelics do is they, they start to broaden that experience in which reality. So you get to experience a lot more reality.
[05:00] And in that shift in reality,
[05:02] you know, most people discover who are doing it in a, in a pos, in like an intentional set and setting is that they, they come in touch with purpose. But we can get a lot into microbiome and a lot of other things that are, that are happening along the way of that.
[05:16] So I think for people like me there's just like more of a curiosity rather than a need to, to fit in.
[05:24] I Like how ethnopsychologist Holgar Kelwait, he said it like this. He said shamanism is the door to the real world,
[05:34] right? And so, like, those of us who are like reality culture, somewhat limiting, like looking,
[05:39] looking to pierce through that veil of like, what the normies are doing,
[05:45] right? It's like to most people like that just get very curious, I think, at a very young age to what's beyond the door. What's beyond? Like, liminal literally means what's beyond the threshold.
[05:55] And the threshold is referring to a door.
[05:57] So what's beyond the door of culture?
[06:00] Valerie: So the reason why I thought to do this episode today is because I wanted to address overcoming samskaras. And I think when, when you're talking about seeing what's beyond what we can see,
[06:13] trying to get beyond our limited mind,
[06:16] this has a lot to do with why I wanted to talk about it. And I was actually talking to a member of mine, a client of mine, about this because she's been going through some really stubborn thought loops and limiting beliefs that she knows she has, but she isn't really.
[06:35] She's having a hard time really getting through that in spite of some of that awareness.
[06:42] And so I wanted to ask you about the role or, you know, if psychedelics can play a role in removing samskaras.
[06:52] So let's talk about that. Like, what is a samskara? And yeah, what is your take on, on that in the context of Ayurveda and yoga?
[07:01] Cate: I mean, well, even deeper than.
[07:03] So. Well, it's just we'll define some terms for the people who are not just yogis out there. So the samskara is like a rut in the mind. So when our mind is falling in a, in a specific pattern again and again, where we're just in like a.
[07:15] Say we're like, you were having thoughts that we don't even believe, but they still suck the emotional body into some, like, little,
[07:21] you know, tizzy. And then that causes food cravings and all these other, like, biological realities where we're just stuck in the rut. We're just stuck in the pattern. Maybe that's overeating, that's.
[07:30] Maybe that's over shopping. Maybe that's being in an abusive relationship or just being with people that don't light us up. Or maybe it's, you know, keeping ourselves small in certain situations rather than, like, stepping into our life in terms of a bigger purpose.
[07:43] Like any of that can be.
[07:45] Any of that could be the rut. What's absolutely mind blowing. I think about the entheogens or the psychedelics is they don't just touch the samskaras, but they actually uproot the Kleshas.
[07:57] And the. The Kleshas are like these. These mental. That they're like the root of the mental afflictions underneath the samskaras. So this is a yogic term. This is out of the, you know, out of the yoga sutras, where we start seeing the Kleshas,
[08:12] and they're known as, like, these mental afflictions that hold us back and stunt our. Our growth. And so the.
[08:18] I think what's one of the more interesting studies with psilocybin and the clacias is like the. The biggest clacia, like the most. The biggest. It's not really the root of the clacias, but the one that everyone has, everyone seems to have until they get beyond it and it seems to require the most work is fear of death.
[08:34] And so because, you know, when we have fear of death, we actually fear of life.
[08:38] So we're not willing to, like, go all in on our life, whether that's like having the baby, quitting the job, starting the company,
[08:45] moving to where we, you know, what makes us happy, like, getting out of again, like,
[08:50] certain thought patterns or ruts that might be connected to the beliefs of our parents, the beliefs of our culture, the beliefs of our teachers, the beliefs of our part, like, whatever's just got us stuck underneath.
[09:01] A lot of that is fear of death. Yeah, Right. And it's an ego death, but it's also a biological death.
[09:08] And so the. The research on, like, psilocybin and terminal cancer patients is that they get beyond fear of death.
[09:14] Yeah. You know, and that's with set and setting and dosage at a hero dose. Like, it's a very controlled,
[09:20] you know, it's a very controlled study with a very specific outcome. If anyone wants to hear on. I think it's on one of my Thrive with Kate episodes. If you look up that with Todd Caldecott, he'll talk about doing that hero journey for his mother who had terminal cancer.
[09:35] So this study is the studies. I can't remember where the study's out of, but like a lot of people, he just did it with his own individual mother and had the same result, which is she,
[09:44] at that point, was no longer afraid to die. When someone's not afraid to die, as we know from an ayurvedic medicine perspective, fear is vata. And vata is a waste of energy.
[09:54] It's a waste of space. It's a waste of energy,
[09:56] and it creates this frenetic energy that works antagonistically to healing and so forth. If we're trying to heal, even if we're trying to heal our relationships before we depart, or we're just trying to heal and be in a more relaxed state, even on a death path where we're like,
[10:13] we know we're gonna die, there's still so much.
[10:16] So much subtle healing in subtle arts and sciences that takes place in that journey. That's like healing karma, essentially. And so what's karma like? Karma is like, residual. I just wanted to define terms as I say them.
[10:28] Yeah, I get that. Otherwise it just sounds like gobbledygook.
[10:31] Like, karma happens when an action isn't, like, clear and pure, when there's just like. There's just some junk attached to it. And we all have junk attached to, like, think ways we've shown up.
[10:43] And that's where there's a whole other group of studies on forgiveness and, like, going through the act of forgiveness and reproachment, which is so powerful to do before dying so that we die with a clear conscious.
[10:55] All of that healing can start to take place only after we're really over some of that just core root va to imbalance around fear of death.
[11:05] Valerie: Okay. Yes. So I think I have so many questions. We're probably gonna skip around a lot because of this, but.
[11:11] Cate: Yeah, we're just gonna go all over the place. It's easier. Yeah.
[11:14] Valerie: Yeah. Okay. So let's. Let's go past Clacias. What are the other Kleshas? Yeah, what are the other.
[11:19] Cate: Cause it's all connected to the Samskaras. Yeah. So there's the push pull.
[11:23] The push pull one, which is Raga and Devesha. So, like, the person that you were describing that with, like, the Samskaras are like these ruts where she's in a pattern.
[11:32] She's attracted to certain things. So our ego identity gets. It has likes and dislikes. So Raga is the likes and Devesha is the. Is the dislikes or the aversion. So even, like, how,
[11:46] you know, it's like, oh, my God. It's like this happens so much like the family stuff. It's like, oh, my gosh, I can't stand how so someone is with me or how I am with someone.
[11:55] Like, we just go into these patterns with each other.
[11:58] Right.
[11:59] And so that's part of that ego identity, Having this preference for how other people are showing up and how. Right. So it's like we get triggered and then we blame someone else for what's triggered.
[12:08] That's like raga and df like yeah. And it's also that just like, oh, I love ice cream but ice cream's keeping me 10 pounds overweight. Or I love da da da da.
[12:18] And so when I look at this from a micro and we can get into like microbiome perspectives because all of these things that seem so mental and psychological are also completely physiological.
[12:29] That our gut and our fat tissue has raga and devacious, it has cravings and aversions.
[12:37] So when I'm with people that are averse to like a high pronic diet or a high life force diet and crave a highly processed diet, that's going to have an effect like all the way through the personality and what the body's able to experience and therefore what the mind is able to experience.
[12:54] And the same thing's true on the other way. If we're like in a really high pranic satvic state, we can also become,
[13:00] you know, so ******* sensitive that we have an aversion to lower levels of consciousness or more tamasic environments or, or whatnot. So we're not actually as adaptable.
[13:11] Yeah. And so it shows up. I mean it just. Those two show up everywhere.
[13:15] Okay, so then the other ones, you know, if we just look at like the. What's often considered like the root is this,
[13:23] this lack of insight or avidya. So avidya is just like, not, they say Avidya like in Desicachar,
[13:31] who's the son of Krishnamacharya and that teaching on the Kleshas.
[13:37] Like they really look at Asmita or as this like lack of,
[13:41] this lack, sorry, avidya or this lack of understanding as like that's the root of raga and Vesha and Abhinavisha which is the fear of death and Asmita which is over identifying with the ego.
[13:53] So then that fifth one is that you're just so identified with like. And so anyone listening to taboo,
[13:59] the more culturally entrained you are, which will have a survival mechanism to it. Like the reason people are in Western psychology, like highly conscientious or like highly involved in what culture deems good and right so righteous will be.
[14:18] We can be so overly identified with that that, that taboos are just completely out of,
[14:27] they're just out of reach because we can't do the. We can't go against the law,
[14:34] say so psychedelics were illegal in most cultures for the last 2000 years. And we can get into the why behind that.
[14:40] Including psychedelics being classified as whatever it is, like a class A drug with violations. As soon as like LSD got popularized in the United States in the 50s, right. Where these taboos are legal, they're cultural.
[14:53] And so we're violating the law of the law of the land.
[14:57] Right. And so that Asmita, or over identifying with a personality, the more personality is tied to culture,
[15:06] where we're just doing what culture's telling us to do, or a good girl or a good boy, and we're following the rules and all that, staying within the lines, coloring within the lines, like not breaking the rules.
[15:18] Then that over identification is also one of these just like mental afflictions where you're just not actually free to your divine nature or who you ultimately are or your bigger purpose,
[15:28] like,
[15:29] which has to go beyond the cultural constraint by definition.
[15:33] Yeah.
[15:33] Valerie: I mean, that's why I think fear is so pervasive. And it's like you could see Avidya as being a product of fear,
[15:43] right? Because like, if you go outside of the boundaries, you're going to be punished, you're going to be scolded, all of this stuff,
[15:50] I mean, and worse. Right. Like there. And, and we've been conditioned also to fall in line because there are positive things to falling in line.
[16:04] Cate: So. Right.
[16:06] Valerie: You know, peace and order and all of that,
[16:10] it's not always good. That's the thing is there's no, there's no real inherent good or bad. But when it comes to predictability and a predictable safety,
[16:19] culture does its job essentially. But it, it also limits us.
[16:25] Cate: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and you know, I think too, because we're talking about, we're talking about yoga, right? And we're using,
[16:34] we're using terms that have been around for,
[16:36] you know, at least if whatever, I mean, at least a few thousand years. A lot of the terms in the yoga sutras are. They're also a few thousand years older than that.
[16:45] So we're talking about a very old terminology and that it's like the ancients were very clear that like, this is not for everyone at all,
[16:55] like, at all. And it's. And the same thing I would say is true of,
[16:59] of entheogens and of psychedelics. This is like, we're not saying that this is for the norm. This is for people who are living already beyond the veil or beyond the threshold and that have a, a deeper curiosity and, and want to experience that which is beyond the cultural norm.
[17:18] So just by having, like, you know, I think anyone listening to this it's like, you're like, yep, I qualify. Otherwise, I wouldn't be listening to Valerie's podcast about rising from the ashes.
[17:28] Like, I'd be pretty cool with, like,
[17:30] take the pool. You know, it's like back to the Matrix. It's like, just follow the pill, you know.
[17:35] Yeah. And to me, that's a very important differentiation and distinction to make is like, we're not talking about. This is good for everyone.
[17:42] Yeah.
[17:42] Valerie: And I think that's.
[17:44] I definitely agree with you. And it's been. I think in my own journey, I was like, why don't more people? But then when I learned about Thomas, Satva and Rajas and like, just kind of the.
[17:54] The journey of the conscious of consciousness
[17:57] Cate: in a person,
[18:01] Valerie: it's. It's not really advisable to knock somebody out of bliss of their, like,
[18:08] you know, whatever. If they're on a path that's, you know, where they have peace and all of that.
[18:13] Like, why would they look for this?
[18:15] But if we have pain and there's like a wall that we're constantly bumping up against that we know is not just,
[18:22] you know,
[18:23] some kind of, like, problem that we need to fix, but perhaps there's something we're just not seeing,
[18:28] which I think people start to sense is like, maybe there's something that I'm just not understanding.
[18:32] You know, that's when I'm like,
[18:34] there are definitely other things out there that can really aid us in that journey.
[18:39] Cate: Well, and I think there's a component here of, like, experiential learning versus this very, you know, like, linear, like, a priori versus a posterior.
[18:49] A posteriori learning. Like, that's like how the Latin, like, described it more in Latin. Right. Of like, are you going to learn from other people's experience or your own experience?
[18:57] And when we're talking about entheogens, we're talking about, like, you. You as the divine. Like, you have to learn from your. There's not transmission.
[19:06] This is like you learning directly from your own experience.
[19:09] And there's historical precedents of this happening, like, everywhere on the planet. So it's not new. Like, none of this is new.
[19:17] This is. And it's not just limited to human beings as a. As mammals. It's.
[19:22] Lots of animals have used plant medicines. And I think if we look at the.
[19:28] I mean, where. Where I'm. I think more and more interested is like, habit stacking and how. What I call. I just call it trip.
[19:36] Scientific researchers are not into that word because they don't want to associate it with like a. A party.
[19:41] Right. But to me it's like, it's a.
[19:43] It's like I start my chapter on trip and.
[19:45] And primal habits or in uninflamed,
[19:50] which is, you know, Odysseus wouldn't have been Odysseus without.
[19:54] Unless he went on the Odyssey. That's Krishna Das.
[19:57] Right. There's like, we have to get beyond a threshold of normal. We have to go on a trip. Like, we have to go.
[20:03] We have to actually leave our environment of comfort and safety, even if that environment is just in our own mind. Right. And this is what I think you're kind of alluding to with these brainwave states and like these shifts that are happening that's beyond the rut, beyond the samskara.
[20:18] We have to get beyond that rut.
[20:20] Right. In order to have a different experience.
[20:24] If we have a different experience, our reality is getting a little more broad, so we know a little bit more reality. That's that whole quote on that shamanism. It's like shamans were involved in what was a much bigger reality.
[20:36] Right. And then we translate that back across the threshold. So we return across the threshold into our normal life.
[20:44] Right. But we, we are not the same. And we also know how to get to the other side again.
[20:49] Valerie: Yeah, let's dig a little bit deeper. I want to get to the Gunas in a bit. But first let's talk about historical use.
[20:58] Cate: Right.
[20:58] Valerie: And I'm. I'm curious about also the use in. Of plant medicines in other mammals.
[21:05] Yeah. What, you know,
[21:07] according to what, you know,
[21:09] like how has.
[21:11] How have plant medicines been used throughout time and for what purpose?
[21:16] Cate: I love how Michael Pollan,
[21:19] so he has a book, how to change your mind. He points out that like evolution didn't edit out humans on psychoactives.
[21:26] Terrence McKenna, who's one of my favorite teachers on this,
[21:31] and Terrence McKenna died in the 90s. But he just is a. There's a tremendous amount of work of his on YouTube of his lectures and he just talks a lot about the,
[21:40] you know, the movement of.
[21:42] Of us as monkeys out of. Out of the. Out of the trees, into the grasslands, basically following what were prehistoric cattle who would eat the stuff in the pastures and **** and then these mushrooms would grow.
[21:58] The mushrooms grow in the ****. And then humans were just like, you know, basically grazing behind these,
[22:05] these cattle and in this like connection into microbiomes just to me so fascinating. So one of the side effects of.
[22:11] Or side. It's not really side effects. One of the side benefits of the psychedelic mushrooms. And there's not just psilocybin, there's like, there's a lot of other ones. Like, and like we can talk about Amanita, which is starting to go through a, a revival, right?
[22:27] I'd say like we're in the very beginning of the great Amanita revival right now. We can talk a little bit more about that which is low in psilocybin and high in iogenic acid and, and muscamol, which are completely different compounds.
[22:41] One of the things that psilocybin does is it improves your visual acuity.
[22:47] And so if you're a hunter or you're a gatherer and you're trying to see what is across the valley,
[22:54] which, like farther away and to see is that where I'm going to expend energy to go harvest or to go hunt.
[23:03] You have,
[23:04] you now have,
[23:06] you know, you basically have a tremendous advantage to those who are not on psilocybin in terms of just obtaining food.
[23:16] And so then when you couple that with the fasted state that there's these habits that naturally stack. And in my experience,
[23:23] well, there's a lot of research around like psychedelics habits, all the entheogens habit stack with fasting so it's easier to fast longer. Which habit stacks with shamanistic journeying.
[23:34] You know, an extended like yogic type rituals where you could have a fire ritual or you could have a breathing ritual or you could have, you know, culture, you could have a group ritual where everyone's doing the same thing for a while and entering a we space or a collective consciousness space in order to call in the rain,
[23:53] right? Or to shift consciousness of the tribe or ward off or to prepare for war. Like we did these things for a very long time in a lot of different ways, right?
[24:02] Where we're trying to actually shift the consciousness of a group of, of people that we use these rituals and fasting is part of that. But I find fascinating from a microbiome perspective is how urine therapy loops in with that.
[24:18] And to me it has everything to do with nitric oxide and increasing the body's natural ability to decrease inflammation and support a rejuvenating microbiome.
[24:28] So when we look at historically humans as hominids have used like I, I mean there's some research that's like 130,000 years ago we know they were using like, there's, there's just like, you know, various pieces of evidence that show that humans have been using and, and pre.
[24:46] Humans have been using psychedelics for a very long time. And just, you know, trying to see, like,
[24:52] well, why.
[24:54] Yeah, like why is it important? And it does seem to go to microbiome,
[24:59] improved eyesight and ritual.
[25:02] Like just getting.
[25:04] Getting into ritual.
[25:06] Valerie: I want to ask or a little bit about ayahuasca, because actually before I heard about psilocybin, I. I heard about ayahuasca.
[25:15] Cate: Cause you're in SoCal. Because that was just like a time place thing.
[25:19] Valerie: But also I had a few, you
[25:21] Cate: know, because like, that's heavy hitting. Like ayahuasca is like.
[25:23] Valerie: Yes,
[25:24] yeah. But also I had a friend, I think in New York was probably the earliest I heard about it, where he and his wife went to. To the Amazon and did it.
[25:33] And that was like the first time I heard of anybody doing something like that. But what I've heard throughout time, actually since then,
[25:41] people coming back and reporting to me their experience, because I've never done it,
[25:44] is like they.
[25:46] Not only are they connecting with like this. This mother medicine, but they're also somehow connecting to the consciousness of the other people in the room with them.
[25:58] And I'm curious about that phenomenon because you just mentioned this, like how to shift the consciousness of a tribe, right? Or a group of people.
[26:09] Cate: Yeah, yeah.
[26:10] Valerie: Why did like.
[26:11] Cate: Yeah. Or if someone that's trying to heal, like trying, like someone who's. Who's trying to have a cathartic healing.
[26:19] So a tribe might also get together with that. There's so many shamanistic type stories from.
[26:23] I mean, just pick the culture, like you could pick Native American culture. You're going to find the same thing of like shifting consciousness to heal someone,
[26:31] you know, and it's like the shamans doing now what. What medicines are they using it? Like, it's very geographically determined. And then usually the habits stack. Usually there's fasting, usually there's chanting, usually there's breathing.
[26:44] Right. That all of these things start to show up together.
[26:47] Not just one of these habits, but they start to show up together. I mean, the thing about ayahuasca that I find so fascinating is it's a. It's a purgative.
[26:56] So it's like an antibacterial purgative. And this is where it's like the. You guys were just at the very beginning of understanding the research between the microbiome and entheogens.
[27:06] This is the very beginning. Like, it's just,
[27:08] it's. It's cool to see. It's hap. It's starting to happen. So. Yay.
[27:12] But like, to me, from An Ayurvedic perspective,
[27:15] because I'm not a scientific researcher. I'm a, you know, I'm an ayurvedic biohacker and primal habits advocate is what I see is this is like, the more toxic the person is, like, the more.
[27:28] Which we could say is toxic is a fairly, like, loose term, but we could say the more dysbiotic the person's microbiome is, meaning that the balance between ubiotic bacteria and dysbiotic bacteria is out of sync.
[27:41] And so the dysbiosis of the bacteria. And we can just take the mouth to **** with the. It's called the mahavaha shrota in Sanskrit, like the big channel of the body.
[27:51] So this is like the.
[27:52] This is the gut microbiome, but it's also the oralone, right? So it's the microbiome in the mouth, down through the throat, into the stomach, into the small intestine, into the colon.
[28:03] And, like, the colon is really where it's like the mouth and the colon are like, game on. Those are like the biggest populations.
[28:11] And so what happens for someone that has a lot of dysbiosis when they take Ayahuasca? And this is personal observation that I've seen more than reading a study particular to dysbiosis, because we don't really, as of right now, have the studies on dysbiosis in Ayahuasca.
[28:27] So it's just again, as a practitioner observing other people bringing that into my experience and having done ayahuasca, it's like people that are going to have more puke and more diarrhea as the initial phasing into Ayahuasca, the body's like,
[28:44] sweet. Let's. The first things first, let's get rid of the dysbiotic biofilms.
[28:49] And so the biofilm is the. It's like these organelles that the bad bacteria that start to build within the digestive tract. Just like when you have, like, a really bad cold and you have.
[29:00] You can't feel like you can't breathe into your sinuses. And then all this, like, green, brown,
[29:06] yellow,
[29:07] thick mucus comes out, and then you can breathe again. That mucus is a biofilm that was blocking the absorption of oxygen.
[29:14] And so the biofilms in the GI tract do the same thing. They block the flow of nutrition and oxygen across the membranes into.
[29:21] Into the blood. So then you're able to absorb energy. So the first thing that happens when people have dysbiosis on Ayahuasca is they puke and they have diarrhea, and the body's just pulling that out.
[29:35] Then what I've seen as well, and I've seen this on psilocybin as well, is there can be a lot of release of mucus.
[29:40] And so mucus is a biofilm. And now and again, it's just blocking the flow of oxygen and nutrition across the digestive tract, across the cells, the endothelial cells, into the bloodstream.
[29:53] So now all of a sudden, the person, like, can get literally more oxygen into their blood, more nutrition into their blood, and they've also just taken out the trash in a very significant way that the body was not able to do without that provocateur.
[30:11] Valerie: Yeah.
[30:12] Cate: Oh, man.
[30:12] Valerie: I had. So I had a thought going into that.
[30:16] Oh, yeah. Because we were getting to this collective healing aspect of it.
[30:20] And,
[30:21] you know, I think actually I have had experience once with the psilocybin where I had the opposite, where I was like, I don't want to be with anybody right now.
[30:29] But overall, I think,
[30:31] you know,
[30:32] that's why I think this there.
[30:34] It's not just the mushroom, it's not just the whatever substance you're about to take, but it's also what is the intention that's going behind it.
[30:43] Cate: And I think.
[30:44] Valerie: Okay, so what you touched upon that I wanted to comment on is this. In Ayurveda, it's not one thing. The medicine is never one thing.
[30:51] It is like an ecosystem of things that you're either doing, you're surrounding yourself by and whatnot. So the taking the psilocybin is going to support the meditation, it's going to support the.
[31:04] The. The better eating, et cetera, et cetera. You know, because I. I think you were speaking earlier about how some people still, at this rate,
[31:12] have this idea that one thing is going to heal them.
[31:16] Cate: Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, the magic pill. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's so convenient, isn't it? Because then we are consumers.
[31:24] So whenever it's something outside of.
[31:26] Outside of yourself that's manufactured by someone that's holding information or power over you. I mean, this, like, what we're talking about, like, these plants grow in.
[31:39] Like, they're not.
[31:40] They're. They're. I mean, yes, we could patent things, you know, and make them,
[31:44] but like, nature, this is just like what nature provides. So we find.
[31:48] We find the psychedelics in every ecosystem, basically. Like, it's crazy. Like, they're everywhere. Right. And they're easy to grow to some degree in nature, like in the right climate. They're just Occurring,
[32:00] Right.
[32:01] Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, what we can talk about, we can talk about unity.
[32:05] Unity consciousness. And like, where does this, like, beyond the threshold and ritual go? Because I would say for, you know, most people right now,
[32:17] like, it's not necessarily something that I would say it is a good idea for a bunch of people to do together. Like, I. In general, like, I. I find, like, just.
[32:26] There's too many frequencies and energies.
[32:29] Like, we're all. All over the place all the time, you know, like, I'm taking a bunch of airplanes this week. Like, case in point,
[32:36] a lot of people commute to work.
[32:38] I was just talking to someone who was on a bus, you know, and I'm like, that's a lot.
[32:43] Like, we're taking in such an unprecedented amount of stimulation and we're processing it through our eyes and our ears primarily.
[32:51] Right. And so then it's like to bring all of those different energies in together. And I'm not saying it's like it's something that shouldn't happen. It's just there's unity. Consciousness will arise even if you're alone.
[33:06] Valerie: Yes.
[33:06] Cate: Right. Yeah.
[33:07] It's not. That's not a re. It's not a related.
[33:10] It's not a related thing. But I'd say what groups who are doing psychedelics well together, it's like they're creating a lot of intention and attunement and purification of both,
[33:23] hopefully through some sort of, like fasting or some sort of. Or it can be fast mimicking, but just some sort of like, starting to take less in through the mouth, through the eyes,
[33:34] through the ears, and then raising their vibration together, which they might do through chanting or singing or breathing and then into the more subtle practices of meditation.
[33:46] Right. Or guided inquiry, which are more subtle than. Than the chanting and the breathing, where we actually just need to move more prana through the system and open the pranic channels.
[33:57] We can also do this through walking. Like a walk on the beach could do the same thing where, like, we're. And we're holding an intention to do something, but we want to move that energy first.
[34:07] Because if anyone's going in with a lot of blockages,
[34:10] the entheogens are going to work really hard to remove those blockages.
[34:13] Right. And that can be very uncomfortable.
[34:16] And so the more blockages people have in that, it's like the more,
[34:20] I would say, like, people who are more on the sattvic side and wanting to just go more into the Ananda, mya, kosher or bliss are just going to find themselves like really being somewhat annoyed by the lower levels of consciousness in the group.
[34:36] Unless they're there to heal that intentionally. Unless that is their intention of being there, in which case they're not. You know what I mean? So it's like there's just so much involved.
[34:45] Valerie: Yeah,
[34:46] let's dive into this Rajas, Tamas and Sava because we haven't really defined it yet. And it's going to lead into what I really want to talk about, which is taboo, especially with regards to Ayurveda.
[34:59] So yeah,
[35:01] I'll give my impression in context is that going to Ayurveda school and other Ayurveda trainings basically was taught that mushrooms are not good to eat,
[35:15] like,
[35:16] and in the language of it's tamasic, so we should avoid them,
[35:23] which I think bypasses a lot of the nuances of what the gunas actually are.
[35:30] And also I,
[35:32] you know, you have actually said that it might be mislabeled. So I want to hear your take on this.
[35:38] We have been taught that mushrooms should be avoided.
[35:42] Cate: Yeah. I mean and we can just even back up to like when we have any sort of concept that has stood the test of time. There's always going to be multiple interpretations of the same con of the same words.
[35:56] Right. So if we, so Rajas, Thomas and Sattva are like a way of,
[36:00] of labeling all of reality into three categories.
[36:04] Valerie: Right.
[36:04] Cate: So it's like anything in the manifest world,
[36:06] we're going to give it one of these three labels or a mix of these three labels.
[36:11] So it's kind of a, it's, it's just a categorical system. So there in the classical,
[36:18] which like classical is where like fundamentalism arises,
[36:23] you know, into.
[36:24] And it's like usually pre classical, then some sort of like fundamentalistic classical, post classical. And then you go non dual.
[36:33] So the non dual interpretation of Satva, Rajas and Thomas is going to be really different than of a fundamentalist. And when we're in more the sort of like classical and fundamentalist we have like good, bad, Right.
[36:43] Wrong, like stay in the lines.
[36:46] Right.
[36:47] So that categorization is going to have like well one's going to be better than another. There's going to be a hierarchy of like good and bad. And so in that, in that sort of like classical fundamentalist of this categorization of all reality, you have Thomas which is like heavy and dense and lower consciousness more dull,
[37:07] you have Rajas, which is more active, heat oriented and goes more outward. So Thomas energetically goes inward, Rajas energetically goes outward. And Sattva is like this more like pure,
[37:20] enlightened, more subtle state. And so the idea in classical yoga was like arise out of the mud, out of the tamas, like through rajasic action, like pranayama, meditation,
[37:31] fasting, ritual, prayer, fire, ceremonies, like all that, like take action, that's all rajas in order to experience awakeness, right. Enlightenment, which is satvik. But then you go to tantra or non dual.
[37:43] So in non dual, like everything's divine. And now you have a really different dynamic where you have,
[37:49] well,
[37:50] rajas and Thomas are in it's yin and yang now. So they're in this like dynamic pulsation where you need to be grounded in order to extend yourself. And then you need to get grounded again.
[38:01] So you need to go to sleep into like deep sleep. You need to get into delta and theta brainwave states. Like you need to get beneath dark, dull, like in that lack of clarity, that sort of like mushy ground.
[38:15] And. And then the more you're in that at night, then the more dynamic you are during the day. And that pulsation is sattvic, like when you're in that, and when that gets all mixed up, you're sick.
[38:26] So same three words. Now if we go to,
[38:28] we turn back into the category of mushrooms, which is why we're talking about this. Because in ayurvedic medicine, if we take a classical perspective,
[38:37] whenever I look at any, it doesn't matter if it's like Judaism or Christianity or Muslim or yoga, right? It's like they're all gonna have this like, good, bad, right, wrong phase of their developmental evolution as a, you know, whether we say it's a religion or a spiritual tradition or whatever we're going to call it in the fundamentalist religions,
[38:58] you have the elevation of the virgin and the decimation of the witch,
[39:03] right? So that's very much like Satvik is the virgin and then tamasic is the witch. But the only problem is, is that the human species doesn't procreate with virgins.
[39:14] So we have like a, a foundational flaw against evolution,
[39:21] which is why it's not the end all be all right. Because at some point we're like, oh wait, if we don't honor the mother, if we don't honor the mother earth, we kill the planet.
[39:28] Oh, that's a problem.
[39:29] If we don't honor.
[39:31] It's like Disney movies. If we don't honor the mother, like stuff happens downstream where the offspring are kind of like culture gets really messed up.
[39:39] Right. And so it's like this,
[39:41] this honoring of. Of the mother is in. In Ayurveda, this dishonoring of the mother, I would say, is where we start to label categories of species as bad.
[39:53] Yeah.
[39:54] Or lower consciousness,
[39:56] because it's not even true. Like, the science. Like, there's certain things that the science supports are your Veda. And there's certain things that the science does not support. Ayurveda and mushrooms are neuroregenerative.
[40:06] They stimulate the brain. They help guard against dementia. Like, it's like there's not even a.
[40:13] There's no science here at all. And so if we take the whole category of mushrooms, like, what we know now about the whole categories of mushrooms is the mycelial web is so deeply healing to the microbiome and the gut brain.
[40:28] Right. Microbiome. Right. Relies on the gut microbiome, which relies on this more healthy,
[40:36] more ubiotic,
[40:39] more diverse microbiome. And the mushrooms, they not. They don't. The crazy thing about the mushrooms is, like, the.
[40:47] It's hard to get all the dirt out of a mushroom. Like where. Especially like the. The nub at the end. And so you're then taking in some dirt from the microbiome, which is.
[40:55] Dirt is the highest thing in microbial diversity that there is.
[40:59] You don't get more rich microbiome than dirt. So anytime we're, like, getting more into the dirt and we look at, like, mushrooms growing manure, like we're getting our hands more in manure.
[41:09] Manure's the second most rich thing in microbiome. And it's got more living species than dead species. Right. Dirt has more dead species.
[41:17] But like this, it just starts to shift our. It just starts to shift our consciousness. So one last thing I'll say on this is it's all classical,
[41:26] all orthodox to classical traditions. And again, it doesn't matter if it's of kind coming from yoga or from Christianity or from Judaism or Muslim traditions. Like, it doesn't matter. We have control over.
[41:39] So we have a priestly class as an intermediary in the Vedic tradition is alive and well in this. And it's alive and well in the whole caste system,
[41:48] where now we have a intermediary between you and the divine. You and your divine nature. We now have an interpreter that's telling you, good, bad, right, wrong.
[41:57] Valerie: So.
[41:57] Cate: So it's so much easier to just say, well,
[42:00] all of the mushrooms, because we know there's psychedelics all over India.
[42:03] So it's so much easier just to say, this is bad.
[42:07] This is wrong.
[42:08] This is illegal. You will get in trouble if you touch this.
[42:14] So if it's an empty agenda, it's gonna bring you on beyond the threshold.
[42:18] It's gonna be like, make you less able to be controlled by culture. It's just such a. It's just such an easy way to go.
[42:25] Shame,
[42:26] fear,
[42:27] guilt.
[42:28] Valerie: This is why it's so frustrating for. For me,
[42:32] again, this goes back to what we said in the beginning about fear and culture and keeping people in line. It's like controlling people.
[42:43] But in the process of doing that, like,
[42:46] you know, we're not too far from lying about reality when we say, like,
[42:52] when we make these statements of, like, all mushrooms are bad or. Right. Like,
[42:57] to me,
[42:59] there's something insidious about that,
[43:02] that we have institutions that blind us to greater truth.
[43:06] Cate: Yeah. I mean, power corrupts.
[43:08] Valerie: Yeah.
[43:09] Cate: So as soon as you have a priestly caste.
[43:11] Right. As all. As all of these fundamental and classical religions and spiritual teachings do, as soon as you need the guru as the intermediary.
[43:22] Right. You know, you have power over. You know, you're. You know, you're inherently in a corrupted system.
[43:29] Unless I keep pointing you back to, like, you have the truth. I'm just here to remind you of that. Like, the truth is within you. Like, you are the divine.
[43:37] You are the divine. You are the divine.
[43:39] You're not a sinner. Like, you are the divine.
[43:42] You are whole.
[43:44] So much. So much of, like, somatic trauma therapy is like, touching on that too. It's like, you are enough.
[43:48] Yeah. You are whole again.
[43:50] You're not separate.
[43:52] You're part of. You're part of it all.
[43:54] It's like, oh, that is.
[43:57] That's the antidote to all the Kleshas.
[43:59] Yeah. Because now you remember now you're not identified as a separate ego. That's Asmita. You're no longer afraid of dying because you realize that, like, there's nothing to die too.
[44:10] Like, you're just in cycles, right.
[44:12] Of consciousness and that,
[44:14] like, just like your consciousness is there between waking and falling asleep and deep sleep and waking again, that your. Your consciousness isn't able to be destroyed.
[44:23] And we see these in teachings. We see these. You know, it's like we see these things in quantum physics with particles and waves and like, oh, yeah, we just are changing these states.
[44:32] Energy and matter are like.
[44:34] It's really hard to separate once.
[44:37] And that's what starts to happen. There's a lot of research now that's showing that, like, you know, mathematicians and scientists who are doing you know, like, physicists are using entheogens because they can't figure something out.
[44:49] They want an insight, and they.
[44:51] That's the setting and the. The intention. This. They're setting their attention that's set. And they're in a setting in which will support them to have a breakthrough that they can't get to with their logical, rational mind.
[45:04] And seems to work every time,
[45:08] you know, and that's the power. As, like, as we get good with set and setting. That's often why it's like, yeah, it's often not a great idea to involve other people unless you are supporting.
[45:18] Like, I might do it with a group of teenage girls that are wanting to have a breakthrough experience,
[45:23] you know, that are, like, ready to shift their consciousness and doing it as a rite of passage.
[45:29] Okay.
[45:30] You know, like, if it. If that's the intention that we're setting, then we're going to create a very.
[45:36] That's. That's the set. Then we're going to create a really strong setting and a preparation for that to happen. So the consciousness is getting involved in what is beyond the threshold.
[45:48] Well, before introducing the plant medicine.
[45:52] It's like the opposite of a party drug. It's the opposite of like, sure, I'll have a beer. Yeah, sure, I'll take some. Whatever. Yeah, no,
[45:59] we're talking about something else.
[46:00] Yeah, yeah.
[46:02] Valerie: Can you talk a little bit about what set and setting is? Because I've read about it before, but I think this is really important to understand when it comes to doing this therapeutically.
[46:11] Cate: Yeah. So set is set. The intention.
[46:14] And so the.
[46:15] The intention,
[46:17] like, for your friend that you were talking about, like, her intention would be to break through the pattern.
[46:23] So for some people, it's like they know they need to leave the job or leave the spouse or leave the house or leave. You know, and so it's like, they might set it as, like,
[46:31] help me clear what's ever in my way. So I have smooth way. Like a smooth, easy way through this. Like, help me just. And that's a very digestive capacity of the psychedelics.
[46:46] So the psychedelics have this agni right, where they're gonna. Or the entheogens have this agni where they're gonna. They're gonna have a digestive component to the pattern, the samskara.
[46:58] Okay. So set, you're setting the intention.
[47:00] You can also have. You can set the intention to be clear on your next purpose.
[47:06] That's. I've done that one for, like, I can't even name how many times When I'm like. I feel like I'm really done with.
[47:16] Really done with, like, this identity,
[47:21] really done with this dharma or this purpose. And I'll do the mushroom, and it's like. Or whatever. The plant medicine, whatever form. It's like, you're not done yet.
[47:30] And then that's clear.
[47:32] Yeah,
[47:33] right? Is. It's like, oh, okay, there's something.
[47:35] There's like pivoting isn't. You can't pivot out of this one,
[47:40] right? It's like, you got like. There's layers. There's like more layers. So just relax,
[47:46] right? And just be in it for as long as it takes with just curiosity and without rushing and without, like, trying to get onto the next thing, which is such a vodicultural thing.
[47:57] Okay? So set can be any way that you need to set the intention.
[48:01] Like an intention. Winston Set. A few years ago, this was with MDMA and a guide,
[48:06] and it was just a. Like, it was just really around relationship. It was like very amorphous mdma, which is. I know you wanted to stick with plant medicines, but I'm not going to do that.
[48:18] It. It has a really. It's in a. It's like an empathogen, right. So it. It makes us feel so much more deeply and. And so much more empathetically into ourselves and to others.
[48:31] And he just experienced so much love for Indy and I. It was remarkable. Like, it was just so remarkable, remarkable to be on the receiving end of that.
[48:43] And that had been trained out of him from Mormonism,
[48:47] right. Where you just don't express that much. Like, you just don't.
[48:50] You just. That's not really in the culture, right. And he just was like.
[48:55] It was like,
[48:56] when you've been held under by we're surface. It's like when you've been held under by a wave and you come up from air and you're just like,
[49:03] you know, and it was just like that much love exists,
[49:08] right? And so, like, just a very simple intention will lead to these. Like, I had no idea. Because now you're beyond the threshold.
[49:15] Now, setting.
[49:16] And setting can include a guide or not. And so the more experienced the person is, usually the less there's a guide or a sitter. Although some people will always choose to have a guide and a sitter.
[49:27] Like, it. It just really.
[49:29] You know, I think that also might depend on the trauma history of the person and their attachment style and like,
[49:37] so many things.
[49:39] But in general, it does seem like the more experienced the people are, the more they also want to have solo experiences where they just don't have the energy of a sitter because there's nothing, there's no such thing as neutral.
[49:50] Right.
[49:51] Like, even as neutral as someone can be, there's still someone else there holding the space. And sometimes we don't need or want that.
[49:59] But setting is really how we are setting the environment to have the experience.
[50:04] And so what Terrence McKenna, like, where he really got to was like,
[50:10] hide hero dose, like high dose and like laying down with like blackout on,
[50:16] blackout on the eyes. So you're just completely going into the interior world and you're not looking to have any experiences out in the waking state consciousness. Like, you're not.
[50:28] You're not in that at all. You're just going in.
[50:32] I personally find I.
[50:35] I just. I have not yet oriented towards that where, like, I'll start there, I'll go in, but like, soon I'm like taking off stuff and just going, like for me, I just awakened a primal ritual, like more or less.
[50:49] Whether I'm alone,
[50:51] whether I'm with a sitter, like, I just go into primal ritual. I go into Kriyas. So my body goes through Kriyas and it just unblocks,
[50:59] patterning. And then I usually go into very deep fascia maneuvers and release to release where energy's stuck in my body. So for me, it's like very physical. And then usually there's a psychological component of digesting the trauma that's releasing with that fascial pattern.
[51:17] I am hoping that so I know how to set myself up so in. In case that happens, I have all the things that I will need,
[51:25] you know, somewhat,
[51:27] somewhat around me in order to do that.
[51:30] But for a lot of people, setting is just a very controlled environment, like very comfortable, where they. They just feel safe. And you know, that safety component is so, so important.
[51:39] Especially I would say, well, it's always important. But people that have more experience feel safe in different environments that a beginner will not feel safe in.
[51:51] Valerie: Okay, so let's go into psychedelics in this context of primal habits,
[51:58] because that's also something I don't think people know much about.
[52:03] And so,
[52:05] you know, going back to this whole idea about the use of psychedelics is not a standalone thing there.
[52:12] You know, you just touched upon a bunch of other primal habits that all work together. And they're all what you would call pre culture.
[52:22] So why is. So what are primal habits and what's the importance of them being pre culture?
[52:29] Cate: Yeah, so when I was writing on inflamed, like in my whole experience in that. So for those who don't know my work, like I started with yoga in Ayurveda,
[52:39] and what I found in being a practitioner for the first decade was like, if people just had the circadian rhythm habits that like, they'd get better.
[52:49] Whereas if I tried to treat them for their like, specific imbalances with like herbs or yoga postures or pranayama or detoxifications methods, and I didn't actually get them grounded in circadian rhythm habits, then I had very sporadic results.
[53:05] Actually I had bad results,
[53:07] just bad results.
[53:09] And the reason I was able to find that is I was launching these detoxes every spring and fall where I basically would just teach people to do like hardcore circadian rhythm habits and, and change their, and just make their, their food really easy to digest for a few weeks,
[53:23] like very uncomplicated. And that this group momentum would help people do things that would much harder to do on their own. And then those people would continue to do those circadian rhythm habits.
[53:35] And I was like, and then they get better and better.
[53:37] People had had a hard time getting pregnant, would get pregnant. Like it was, we have a lot of babies from those detoxes now they're all grown up and graduating from high school and going to college.
[53:45] It's hilarious.
[53:47] And I'm like, oh,
[53:49] you're a yogi detox baby.
[53:52] So then, you know, this whole.
[53:54] My first book, Body Thrive, was just like, okay, these are the, these are the circadian rhythm habits told from a yogic and Ayurvedic perspective. Ayurveda, the healing science behind yoga.
[54:04] And then out of that people, my community was getting really healthy from living these habits. And as you get healthier, you start to awaken to purpose. And that was my second book, Master of youf.
[54:13] It was like, what happens when you awaken to purpose? And now you want to, you want to take on a, a much bigger dharma, much bigger,
[54:20] much bigger life goals, usually multi dimensional, usually where you have to out step outside the bounds of who you've been, step beyond the ego that you've already been.
[54:29] And then that led to uninflamed, which was like,
[54:34] it started off as wild habits. That book went through a few different names and it's journeying. And I was just looking at like,
[54:42] there's these habits that precede culture. Like they're not connected to any group. So like circadian rhythm habits are primal. Like they're just part of the species. So what are some of the habits that.
[54:55] And, and I Was kind of looking like beyond like the typical ones of like yeah, we know there's the typical ones of like early to bed, early to rise, like see day, like Andrew Huberman's work, like see daylight in the beginning of the day, like that kind of stuff.
[55:09] But what I had also found in having an experimental community which turned into club thrive.global was that like people that were in these regular fasting rhythms going deeply into fast mimicking diet,
[55:20] which kind of grew out of our detoxes,
[55:22] like they were able to change their cravings in a way that me just working with ayurvedic medicine as a practitioner was not very effective because I couldn't get that group momentum going for people to do much harder things.
[55:36] And so then starting to really look at like ritual. Like what are some of these things that doesn't matter,
[55:43] doesn't matter. The culture. Like people have done this together forever and this is what starts to, you know, these gateways into shamanism.
[55:52] So also like behind the scenes, the whole time with this was my community at Club Thrive Global was doing urine therapy. Like it just kind of swept the community in a way that was shocking to me as the leader.
[56:08] You know, I was just like, this is ******* weird. Like what is,
[56:11] what is up with this other primal habit of urine therapy? Which sounds so gross. And the,
[56:17] the grosser something is, the more disgust.
[56:20] So whether you have disgust around psychedelics cuz they're illegal, cause you can have that kind of disgust. Like ugh, like I just, I, I just couldn't cross that threshold.
[56:31] And there can be a piety with that disgust as well. Like the mushrooms with the Vedic gurus, that priestly cast, they may have discussed, they may literally have disgust with mushrooms.
[56:43] It's. That's a trained disgust.
[56:46] There can be biological disgust, but it's also a trained emotion and it relies on the taboo.
[56:51] So whenever we're trying to have power over especially a biological habit, and we know urine therapy is a biological habit because it arises in species other than humans.
[57:02] Even like it was funny. I was watching if there's any Rocky. Oh, I can't remember his last name. Rocky fans. Rocky sits with dogs. He has this whole YouTube channel of 5 million followers on sitting with dogs.
[57:15] I sometimes listen to him sitting with dogs because it's like some of the best training on, on somatic therapy and trauma, like trauma, like releasing trauma.
[57:25] And this like dog peed in the kennel and you know, and he had disgust to that. Cause he's, he's super western guy, right?
[57:32] But I was like, oh no. Like the. There's a biological reason that we pee when we're afraid because then we're actually going to inhale nitric oxide.
[57:40] And that's going to create a calming effect in the nervous system, like smelling your own pee.
[57:45] If you've been.
[57:46] Again, many of you have been biologically trained to have disgust to pee.
[57:51] And some of you did dirt. Like, some of you, like when you were growing up and you've got your hands in the dirt, your mom said no, no, no,
[57:58] bad, bad, bad. And so you got entrained that dirt is bad and dirt which grows food is bad or manure is gross.
[58:08] So whenever. And I, I know I'm going slow here because it's like so primal. We have to go so back,
[58:16] back, back before culture, before entrainment, around disgust.
[58:22] And that's really far back. Like for this can be pre agriculture, this can be like 10,000 years. That's a lot of generations. Like you know, if you just think of like how quickly humans have become like addicted to technology and just like literally like 15 years.
[58:35] If you're going back a thousand years, that's a lot of generations. 2,000 years. That's a lot of generations. So urine like it was being, it was well used in like the, the Roman Empire, they were using urine for all sorts of things.
[58:48] It is medicine and Chinese medicine going back about 2,000 years ago, they were also doing fecal transplants or fecal, what are now called implants in Chinese medicine 2000 years ago.
[59:01] So that, that all that stuff went to like disgust in the last. So a lot of these things are so, so far underneath all that.
[59:09] Okay, so back to like urine therapy, nitric oxide microbiome. A lot of these primal habits,
[59:16] what we find is they habit stack and they all renew the microbiome. So they all renew the microbiome. And now we know the microbiome is the basis of human health.
[59:24] So the more dysbiotic your body is, that means you have lower microbial diversity, you have fewer species,
[59:30] the healthier you are. The, and that's called a low MAD score is like the loss of microbial diversity is, is a signifier of how sick you are. While the opposite your microbial diversity,
[59:41] the more diverse you have, the more ubiosis you have, the healthier you are.
[59:45] And where urine therapy unfolds in all this is it's the nitrogen cycle.
[59:51] So it's hydrating and it's bringing nitrogen. And many of you prefer like trying to eat more nitrates or trying to have more beets. Well, you're trying to actually improve the amount of nitrogen in your physiology.
[01:00:02] So all these things start to stack together. So when we look at like, what is primal and how does TRP fall into it the more you've transcended, or you can say we could go the other way, the more you've digested, right?
[01:00:18] So one's above, one's through and it's really more of digested the disgust factor and are more awake to primal.
[01:00:25] If you're already doing urine therapy and you start doing psychedelics,
[01:00:31] when you're on psychedelics,
[01:00:33] you're going to go towards looping and towards which is like where you're re ingesting what you're peeing out through your mouth or through your skin or through your nose. And your body will start to use it to clear more and more biofilms.
[01:00:48] It'll also use it to take in the more subtle effects of the plant medicine.
[01:00:54] And there's tales of shamans ingesting like reindeer urine of like reindeer eating amanita. And this being tied to the whole Santa Claus myth and the reindeer and the presents under the Christmas tree and like all that which are the amanita mushroom under the Christmas tree and.
[01:01:07] And the shaman's like literally gathering the pee in the snow of the reindeer and ingesting that.
[01:01:15] So there's something that happens. What I notice, and again, zero studies all.
[01:01:20] It's interesting now with AI because I'm able to somewhat find more information on what's happening in the whole nitrogen cycle as urine goes through multiple passes in the body. But there's definitely a subtler level of,
[01:01:32] of awareness.
[01:01:34] What I find is this. You're so much more able to control dosage.
[01:01:39] So now where, like a lot of people have trouble with experimenting with entheogens and becoming your own shaman with your own plant medicine is like humans used to know how to dose things.
[01:01:49] We used to, you know, we never would go to someone else and say, what should I eat?
[01:01:53] Or what supplements should I take. That is a primal habit where you just know from your ecosystem what your physiology needs.
[01:02:00] Right?
[01:02:01] So the same thing's true. Then when you're using urine therapy, now you're upcycling. So now your ability to steer is so much more precise.
[01:02:11] And so then when you're dosing with entheogens, your ability to steer how much and you're getting the deeper hydration and it's structured water,
[01:02:20] so you're clearing biofilms, you're awakening into like neuroprotective fields within your brain. Right. You're creating new neural pathways, you're moving into gamma brainwave states and you've got your hands on the steering wheel.
[01:02:33] So now you can actually steer your. It's like liminal, it's like lucid dreaming where you're now able to like steer your experience with so much more accuracy in terms of like duration.
[01:02:44] So maybe it's like this trip isn't done yet. This realization, like it's not fully processed. Maybe I'm releasing fascia in fascia maneuvers and I need to go in deep for another hour.
[01:02:55] Well, now I can steer with so much greater accuracy.
[01:03:00] So that's really like the. And I know this conversation is way too extreme for most listeners,
[01:03:05] but I just want to explain like that's where it goes and partly of like that's why it goes. Cuz the body is just trying to go into healing and self renewal and the primal habits, they stack and they start to steer us into the next primal habit.
[01:03:20] Valerie: I'll add a little bit here so that I can maybe bridge a gap because there are a couple of primal habits that I really, really like that are really, really accessible which are movement.
[01:03:30] Right. Like the crawling and the hanging and a lot of the stuff that I do, right. With the dance and stuff is, is movement, is, is primal medicine.
[01:03:41] Cate: Yeah.
[01:03:41] Valerie: And we don't even do that anymore.
[01:03:45] A lot of, a lot of people don't even do that anymore. But the thing is like if you can really get into a groove, if you can understand rhythm, if you could really move your body,
[01:03:53] then you are maneuvering fascia, then you are moving fluids through, you're moving prana through.
[01:04:00] And even doing that right,
[01:04:04] it wires your brain into a different way.
[01:04:07] I find that I am so much more open to possibility.
[01:04:13] I am more acutely aware of my own power and I'm really thankful that I've had that because I think that has opened me up to try to understand even more about well, what else am I capable of?
[01:04:25] What else, what else is my body capable of that,
[01:04:29] you know, I haven't considered yet? Which is why I love diving into topics like these where it's like, let me learn more about my potential.
[01:04:39] So you know, if this, for the listeners out there where this is sounding really, really foreign,
[01:04:45] you know, start. Start simple with things that are. Because all of this is. Is meant to help you heal, right at the end of the day, it's all. And to help you thrive.
[01:04:54] It's not just heal,
[01:04:57] it's actually to Awaken you to what you're capable of.
[01:05:00] So that's just my.
[01:05:02] Cate: I just want to hit on that with, like,
[01:05:05] my dad and I were watching the Jazz Singer last night, which is like a early Neil diamond movie. And in the Jazz Singer, his coming out of that, like,
[01:05:14] orthodox culture,
[01:05:16] Judaism,
[01:05:18] of being the fifth generation of a cantor, which is like the singer for the congregation. It's like the one who knows all the chants, right?
[01:05:27] All the Old Testament biblical. Like, this is how we read. This is how we chant, this is how we invoke, this is how we pray. Right? And it's like watching him go from that to, like, being on stage and just seeing the tradition of singing.
[01:05:41] In singing, it's very inaccessible to me. It's very inaccessible to a lot of us. Right. Because we just weren't raised with it. But if we can't do that, we can hum.
[01:05:50] And humming increases nitric oxide. Nitric oxide releases the biofilms, increases your energy absorption, decreases, dementia increases, like your blood's ability to carry oxygen and flow through your veins and release carbon dioxide.
[01:06:02] Like, it does all the things. It does all the things just humming.
[01:06:05] So I love how you're saying, like, if we can't. It's like, if we can't really, like, formally dance, we can groove, like, we can feel a beat, we can stomp, we can clap, like, we can just go to the much more basic expression.
[01:06:17] And that.
[01:06:18] That's where that begins. Like, that's.
[01:06:22] And that's Thomas. So we're getting out of this rajasic crazy culture into just stomping,
[01:06:28] right? And to just crawling, into. Just burping, exhaling, farting, like, just getting, like. Just grounded,
[01:06:38] getting the air out.
[01:06:40] Yay.
[01:06:41] Valerie: So we're running out of time, so I want to make sure that we have enough time to cover a couple more things.
[01:06:46] The next thing I wanted to ask you about, that you wanted to talk about is the amanita diet.
[01:06:50] So I've never heard of this. I actually looked it up, and I couldn't find that much. So I'll let you have the floor with this one.
[01:06:56] Cate: Yeah. And I'm. This is where, like, I'm. I'm a. I'm a bit of a virgin becoming a witch in Amanita. So when we, you know, the virgin's innocent, like, we just don't know until we do it a lot.
[01:07:07] And then we become the witch.
[01:07:10] And that's the progression of consciousness, right? Into being able to hold.
[01:07:14] Hold the opposites. So Amanita is considered poisonous again. It's a such a convenient mislabeling,
[01:07:23] just like, just like mushrooms,
[01:07:25] right? And it is a mushroom and it's the red one with the white dots.
[01:07:29] When I was in Chicago for a wedding last year in the middle of winter, Neiman Marcus had this like gorgeous display of like human size amanita with these gorgeous winter gowns.
[01:07:41] So it's like, it's that one that you kind of see everywhere, right? It's that sort of like popular looking psychedelic. But it doesn't look like the ones that are high in psilocybin.
[01:07:50] So most of the psychedelics, like when people are taking magic mushrooms,
[01:07:53] they're taking psilocybin, they're not taking amanita. So there's just funny like mismatch right there.
[01:08:03] And so this was introduced to me by someone who's helping me out with my personal health with my arthritis and my nervous system issues that I've had since my radical hysterectomy where I developed a lot of scar tissue and it really affected my nervous system in my pelvic floor.
[01:08:19] So much so that like my alignment is different in my legs. I started to get severe arthritis in my left hip and my left knee.
[01:08:27] And I obviously know a lot. I'm a trained iyengar yoga teacher. I'm certified Anusara yoga teacher. Like I've spent 10 years in yoga trainings,
[01:08:35] let alone teaching.
[01:08:37] So I have a lot of awareness and I have a lot of awareness from meditation and other integral enlightenment type practices, pranayama, a lot of advanced pranayama training, et cetera.
[01:08:47] And I'm just like, wow, I can't, I can't get under it, can't get under the pattern.
[01:08:52] And I'm not that keen on getting replacement surgeries. I'm only 50,
[01:08:56] turning 53 next month. And I'm just like, I've been, I've had a lot of surgeries and I just am like not, not ready,
[01:09:03] ready for that. And so a healer was suggested this to me and I worked with a guide and did a like a 40, 50 day, 50 day diet, something like that of taking Amanita every day in some amount there if you, there's a woman on YouTube for those who want to know a lot more about Amanita.
[01:09:26] Amanita Dreamer. That's what it is. You can find her on Instagram and you can find her on YouTube and she'll teach you everything from like harvesting to drying to how it works,
[01:09:38] you know. And the difference between like amani is fascinating because it has,
[01:09:43] if you use Heat with it, it turns ibogenic acid into muscamol which has a very different effect on the nervous system.
[01:09:52] So one is stimulating, the iogenic acid is more stimulating and that's moving patterns around and then the musca mall is more relaxing. So it's like phenomenal for high vata states and sleep.
[01:10:04] But it's not a, it's not high in psilocybin. So you don't get this like crazy visual effect. I mean you still may have increased visual acuity slightly but not like dramatically like,
[01:10:15] like psilocybin. And you're not gonna like have the same type of like of a trip.
[01:10:22] In my experience it like it rebuilds the nervous system which is something that almost every modern human needs at this point. Especially the more plugged in we are, the more we're traveling or the more trauma that we've had.
[01:10:34] I will be having on thrive with Kate, experts on Amanita to really get into it. Cuz I like total neophyte. I've only done 50 days of it like straight.
[01:10:45] And what I noticed is that like it definitely rebuilt my microbiome. Like one of the big shifts I had and I had a bit of a crisis, I had a little healing crisis.
[01:10:54] Those of you who don't,
[01:10:56] if, if the more primal habits do you do, you're going to have healing crisis. You're going to have catharsis that breaks through a pattern that's so entrenched in biology that it just, I just had seen this, you know, I've been doing this for way too long.
[01:11:10] So it's like for 20 years I've just seen like people have healing crisis on the way to being healed.
[01:11:15] So for me I had very acute constipation in like the middle of it. And I was like,
[01:11:21] this is weird. Like I'm doing all the,
[01:11:24] all the things I normally do. I had chronic constipation, like debilitating constipation as a, as a young child from trauma and from standard American diet from not being nursed from like all, all these things compounding that gave me migraines.
[01:11:38] So in the middle of the Amanita diet like that came back full force. Even though I was like doing all the things that helped me eliminate. I have no issues with elimination for like the last decade.
[01:11:48] I was like, this is interesting.
[01:11:51] And then when it released it actually realigned my descending colon so there was fascia that was,
[01:12:02] it was trauma,
[01:12:03] a trauma fascia pattern from either in utero or directly postpartum.
[01:12:09] It felt like postpartum because often with psychedelics, the memories release along with the physiological pattern shifting like literally every day now when I take a ****, it's like along a different pathway.
[01:12:21] There's like, not that kink in the fascia anymore.
[01:12:25] And there's no way I was getting to that without that. Without a. Without an entheogen. There's just no way. I just couldn't have processed the fibrotic tissue because at some level you need.
[01:12:36] It's. At some level the stuff is biochemical and you need the nitric oxide and you need the.
[01:12:43] You need this epigenetic shift around the fibrotic cells that actually are going to bring in oxygen and bring in prana and bring in that life force intelligence again in order to create that realignment.
[01:12:54] So I could go on and on about the Amanita stuff. It'll be in my next journal book, which will come out at some point.
[01:13:01] Valerie: I think you'll need to either do some episode or more writing also about the fascia as well.
[01:13:07] Cate: And, you know. Yeah.
[01:13:10] What role that. Yeah, yeah.
[01:13:12] Probably not today, but yeah.
[01:13:14] And that's. Everyone's going to see so much more publishing on.
[01:13:18] On fascia, on Somatic Healing,
[01:13:22] and even on like, diatomaceous earth, like the stuff that human. Human Garage has their finger on the pulse. And the interesting thing to me about Human Garage and Gary over there is they're also doing urine therapy and they're also talking about structured water.
[01:13:35] So that's where you see habit stacking. It's like when you start noticing. It's like, oh, it's over here. Oh, it's over there. Yeah. Pay attention.
[01:13:42] Valerie: Okay, so the last thing I want to do before we wrap is just to make sure that some of these questions were answered that were submitted from people in our community.
[01:13:52] So one question was, I would love to hear on the practitioner side of things, how integrating them into a practice with clients has shown up for you. Kate, any personal fears or concerns when introducing them to other people for the first time?
[01:14:06] Cate: Yeah, I mean, I. I don't have,
[01:14:08] like. I'm not a psychedelic psychotherapist, so I'm an informant.
[01:14:13] Right. I'm just trying to inform people into the experience,
[01:14:19] you know, of it of like. And usually there's supply issues. Like, that's, you know, and we're global, so people really face different issues in different countries with this, including, like, the severity of the legality.
[01:14:31] The United States has changed a lot.
[01:14:33] Even Mexico's changed a lot. There's a lot of psychedelic psychotherapists out and in Mexico they're like, weed is no longer illegal in Mexico. So things are like, things are starting to change in certain,
[01:14:46] in certain places. But I do like to inform people and in general, like my community has a higher level of consciousness. And so the,
[01:14:54] you know, just informing people around microdosing around like using non,
[01:15:00] non hero doses or just small amounts that will start to awaken intelligence and renew microbiome and then serve as like a gateway to them. Finding usually someone who is a trained therapist to do,
[01:15:12] to do more of like a hero dose in a protected setting.
[01:15:15] I'm all for that. I'm going to create a primal habits badge within Club Thrive where there's just a lot of information.
[01:15:23] So rather than like me telling someone what to do, it's just like providing again, just being an informant.
[01:15:29] Yeah,
[01:15:30] there are great therapists around and that's like my suggestion as practitioners is it's like just help people find, like help people find that and also help if it's, you know, like depending on your comfort and legalities and all that.
[01:15:42] Like just helping people find supply for microdosing and start to have,
[01:15:48] you know, an experimental mindset with that.
[01:15:51] This is what I've really found of how it ties into Club Thrive is like we really try to help people clean up their fat tissue in Club Thrive because it's so toxic for most people starting with us in Club Thrive and it creates all these other biological and psychological problems.
[01:16:07] And so we do fast mimicking diet four times a year. Some people do it more than that,
[01:16:12] some people aren't able to do it and that's fine too.
[01:16:15] And so they do microbiome reset.
[01:16:17] But in that it can be really psychological for a lot of people. Like the fasting can be a lot less physiological where they have like 10 pounds of fat to burn.
[01:16:25] Like their body does not need calories for a few days. It's clearly not a biological need. But the psychology is so thick, it's so in the pattern. And that's where even microdosing they can just get on the other side.
[01:16:40] And the problem you guys is if you're not on the other side of the toxicity in your fat tissue is it just keeps the cravings high because it's full of endocrine disrupting chemicals that cause the cravings.
[01:16:49] So if you're trying to battle cravings with your willpower, like you're ******. Like it's, it doesn't work that way.
[01:16:55] So that's why in my experience like the stuff is cross cultural. It's Everywhere. And humans have used it forever.
[01:17:01] Yeah.
[01:17:02] Valerie: And I know in California at least it's pretty easy to find microdosing.
[01:17:06] Cate: Yeah.
[01:17:07] So.
[01:17:08] Yeah. And that can just make all the difference between someone getting through a fast mimicking diet or 72 hour water fast and getting into generating stem cells and growth hormone and having that like deep renewal, that deep like rinse out of their fat tissue.
[01:17:22] When they do, their stomach shrinks. And so now satiety is reset. Right. The microbiome gets reset. Right. So you have massive dysbiosis sloughing off in a five day fast mimicking diet.
[01:17:34] So then you're like, I mean it might, it can take people a year or two with us to like really get into like, wow, I just don't crave **** anymore,
[01:17:40] you know, but like that's not that long if it lasts for the rest of your life.
[01:17:45] Valerie: Okay, so another question is, and I think we partially answered this one is do different psychedelics correspond to, aggravate or pacify different doshas.
[01:17:54] Yeah, so we'll start with that.
[01:17:56] Cate: I mean I think it, it comes back to like, everything's a medicine, everything's a poison.
[01:18:00] Valerie: Yeah, Right.
[01:18:01] Cate: And so the more we know again, set and setting,
[01:18:07] right. We can turn something that might, you know, because we could just like go. And this is the problem I find with a lot of ayurvedic practitioners and auradic doctors is they tend to be pitta aggravated and pitta constitution.
[01:18:20] And so they tend to love to intellectualize and be like, I'm the expert, I'm the intermediary between you and your better health. And so I'm going to say this is good, this is bad, this is good for this.
[01:18:29] I'm going to make it really ******* complex when like at the end of the day you need to get in touch with plant medicines. Like everyone listening, like whether that's the cinnamon in your spice cabinet or the dandelion or the thistle outside your door.
[01:18:42] And you need to understand the category of adaptogens and the category of clarity. Carminogens. Right. Or those that improve your appetite and emmenagogues and, and, and, and, and entheogens. And so the more you start to understand that now it's like instead of going into your spice rack and just being like cinnamon,
[01:19:03] cinnamon, cinnamon, cinnamon. You're like cinnamon,
[01:19:06] mustard seed,
[01:19:07] cloves,
[01:19:09] cardamom,
[01:19:10] basil,
[01:19:11] cilantro,
[01:19:13] chives. And you realize there's like a hundred of these and that you can design your experience.
[01:19:19] And that's part of just being an integrated ecologically integrated, awake human being is like, now you're not just like, cinnamon,
[01:19:27] cinnamon,
[01:19:28] cinnamon. And you can you all see this with other people where they're like, Bud Light,
[01:19:31] Bud Light. It's like their only ******* hammer to hit the nail,
[01:19:36] right? And it's like that's, that's the only key on the piano they know now you've got 88 keys,
[01:19:42] right? And then that's where you're like, oh, a little of this and oh, a little of that and oh, oh, oh,
[01:19:48] wow.
[01:19:50] Wow. I'm having the experience I want to be having, and I'm having insight and I'm clear on Dharma and I'm more compassionate, more empathetic, more connected to everyone. And just like stoked, I've now awakened the Anandamaya kosha, the bliss sheath,
[01:20:06] all the way through the physiological or the Onomykosh of the Fuji.
[01:20:11] Yeah.
[01:20:11] Valerie: And I also think, you know, there's,
[01:20:15] there's limited things we can say about whether it aggravates one dosha or not because it's been suppressed knowledge.
[01:20:23] We need more data as well.
[01:20:25] Cate: Right.
[01:20:25] Valerie: We need more people, you know, during research, actually experiencing in a, in a setting that is.
[01:20:31] Cate: Okay, I want to say categorically in my experience of all psychedelic mushrooms, if we just stay with there and ayahuasca is, I'll just be like, it's tridosic and it releases ama and it's ojis.
[01:20:44] So that's my. Like, if I actually get into it, it's that. Does that mean someone won't have a healing crisis where they're going to experience really high pitta, really? And most Ayurvedic practitioners I know, like, don't know enough.
[01:20:56] Yeah, they just don't have enough lived experience. They haven't gone primal enough to understand. Where Ayurveda arises out of is a lot. I've worked with a lot of doctors.
[01:21:04] I mean, even Dr. Dr. John Dillard, if you listen to my podcast with him, like, he doesn't know anything about. He's obsessed with nitric oxide and he knows nothing about urine therapy.
[01:21:14] He just knows about urine as a diagnostic. So. And that's true in general. And it's not their fault. Like, and, and they're brilliant human beings, but, like, they just don't have enough primal embodiment to understand.
[01:21:26] They don't have enough experience with entheogens and healing crises to understand,
[01:21:31] like, what's underneath all of this really sophisticated intellectual knowledge and all these double blind studies that are so limited because they can only Study a very, very small part of reality.
[01:21:42] Which brings us down back to liminal thinking with, like, what we think of reality is just a little, teensy, tiny sliver of it.
[01:21:50] Valerie: One more, I guess one more point to add to this also is that, you know, when we go back to intention and this is based off of personal experience, but also, you know, just hearing other people's stories is that whatever,
[01:22:01] like, especially for psilocybin, it's going to magnify one in your attention, but also what you're going through at the moment.
[01:22:08] So that could be any dosha, I think.
[01:22:12] Cate: Yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna bring it to a healing crisis to clear.
[01:22:15] And that's the same thing with the biofilm, because you can see biofilms of having a identity,
[01:22:22] right? So if you start to look at dysbiotic biofilms, there's like,
[01:22:25] they're gonna hold the identity of the past human being. They're gonna hold the cravings, they're gonna hold.
[01:22:30] They're gonna hold all the psychology,
[01:22:32] all the relational,
[01:22:34] like, all the relationships are held in that identity.
[01:22:38] And so if the set and the setting is like pulling this into the shift,
[01:22:43] then there's gonna be a catharsis. There has to be a catharsis.
[01:22:47] There has to be a provocateur in order for that to release, in order for insight,
[01:22:53] which is the reliable mechanism of the psychedelics, of the entheogens.
[01:22:58] Right? That's why, like, the shamans are using them to know more reality, because it's like we're just stuck in a pattern. Like, just back to your point. In the beginning, we're stuck in the samskara.
[01:23:05] Get beyond it, like.
[01:23:07] Yeah,
[01:23:09] I mean, and I think the thing we haven't touched on, which, you know, to some degree may need to be said, or at least whatever is like, there's a lot of people are like, well, can I get there through.
[01:23:17] Can I get there through pranayama and asana and fasting?
[01:23:22] You know, it's like,
[01:23:24] not as reliably and. And would I love Terence McKenna's view of like.
[01:23:30] Like, why make it so hard?
[01:23:32] Yeah,
[01:23:33] because in my experience, like, I've sat 10 day silent meditation retreats, mostly in like a fasted mode.
[01:23:39] And those are challenging. Like, I've. I've sat three or four of them. They're very challenging to do. They do require a lot of, like, structure.
[01:23:45] And by like day seven, I'm getting somewhat close to like two hours into a trip.
[01:23:51] So, like, most people just don't have the Time.
[01:23:54] And then a lot of people sit those 10 day meditation retreats and they never get beyond that threshold. Like they just, you know, just sit and they just have a lot of psychological pain.
[01:24:03] I've had a acquaintance commit suicide after one because he couldn't get like it just like it doesn't work for everybody,
[01:24:11] you know? Yeah.
[01:24:12] Valerie: Well also this yoga, the yoga sutras does actually mention that one way to get to Samadhi is through Javas Ashadis. Right.
[01:24:21] Cate: That that means herbs and, and soma is considered like a lot of people think that soma's amanita.
[01:24:28] Yeah,
[01:24:30] yeah, it's. I mean, I think just for people listening, it just kind of this is. It's like it expands your consciousness maybe and provoke some curiosity and then it'll go somewhere.
[01:24:41] Just like follow that,
[01:24:42] follow that trail through the woods and see where.
[01:24:45] And see where it goes.
[01:24:46] And then I think what I've tried to do in Club Thrive Global is like just normalize this stuff. Like just normalize the primal habits that in a micro culture anything have become normal.
[01:24:56] I mean, in Epstein's micro culture, pedophilia was normal.
[01:25:00] He normalized pedophilia.
[01:25:03] It's so weird, right? We can also normalize the opposite of that. Like normalize you fully awake, fully empowered, like in a completely non manipulated or manipulable state.
[01:25:14] And like that's your natural state, but just being around.
[01:25:17] And this is where commune is a primal habit. Like being with other people that have the habits and have the. Or having the experiences that you want to have.
[01:25:25] Like that's the quickest way to get there. It's not going in alone. It's not trying to figure it out all by yourself.
[01:25:32] Valerie: Awesome. Well, thank you, Kate for this enlightening conversation. So I'd like to invite everyone listening if you want to know more, follow Kate.
[01:25:41] She has her several podcasts now at this rate.
[01:25:45] Cate: Right.
[01:25:45] Valerie: And then also several books. And the one that we pulled from today is Uninflamed.
[01:25:51] Cate: So.
[01:25:52] Valerie: And you also have Primal Habits as a book.
[01:25:54] Cate: Yeah, Primal Habits. I just took the science out of Uninflamed because a lot of people were like, I just want the habits. So that's Primal Habits Uninflamed has all the. If anyone wants the 300 scientific studies that back up all the stuff that we're talking about,
[01:26:07] including all the stuff on nitric oxide, that's all in Uninflamed. And then Witch's Cancer journal, people I find who don't care about science and just want the contact high.
[01:26:18] Their favorite is Witch's Cancer Journal.
[01:26:20] Great job, Valerie. It's fun to. It's all this pulled out of me.
[01:26:25] Valerie: Thank you.
[01:26:25] Cate: Thanks for playing along.
[01:26:28] Valerie: One last thing before we sign off. If you guys want to ask any more questions, feel free to send me an email.
[01:26:34] Sign up for my newsletter, which is going to be through the vibrantvisionary.com and we I will try to filter those questions on.
[01:26:43] Cate: So, yeah, tell them about your club. What's your club?
[01:26:45] Valerie: Yeah, so my club is called the Vibrant Visionary Collective.
[01:26:49] It is for people who are finding that they want support in making a big life change,
[01:26:57] knowing that there's more out there for them and everything that we talked about today being like, I have a night like this idea that I have more potential,
[01:27:06] but I'm, you know, I'm scared or like, I don't know, I need to figure things out and I'm having a lot of anxiety around it.
[01:27:12] You belong in the collective because that's exactly what we are doing in there.
[01:27:18] Cate: So check us out, check Kate out
[01:27:21] Valerie: and hopefully we'll hear from you soon.
[01:27:23] Yay.
[01:27:24] Thanks for tuning in to from the Ashes. If this episode sparked something in you, remember your evolution matters and we're rooting for you every step of the way.
[01:27:34] For coaching, community and free resources to help you rise into your full potential,
[01:27:39] visit the vibrant vision visionary.com and download the Vibrant Visionary Blueprint, your free guide to reclaim your energy, clarity and creative fire.
[01:27:49] If you love this episode, please share it with a friend or tag me Valerie on Instagram ibrantvisionary. Val, I'd love to hear what resonated for you.
[01:27:59] Until next time, keep rising.
